Borrowing Audiences with Samantha Johnston

Episode 16 February 28, 2022 00:56:04
Borrowing Audiences with Samantha Johnston
The Agency Hour
Borrowing Audiences with Samantha Johnston

Feb 28 2022 | 00:56:04


Hosted By

Troy Dean Johnny Flash

Show Notes

On this episode of The Agency Hour, we catch up with one of our Maverick Club members, Samantha Johnston, to discover how she has used other peoples groups to grow a multiple 6 figure business.

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The Agency Hour - Ep 16 - Borrowing Audiences with Samantha Johnston 
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 You guys do the flight plans and everything. And one of the measurements is how much time do you spend in your sweet spot? And it's that thing that you hit home about? And it was like, well, I'm not spending enough time in a sweet spot because nothing felt like it was the sweet spot. And so it was taking that step back and saying, well, what is, what is the sweet spot? And I hit that and that's when everything exploded. So sweet spot was really the, the key piece for me was, um, if you know your sweet spot and you know, all of that, then you're able to discern what pieces of the Maverick's teaching you can take in and just run with it. And it's gonna help you amplify everything. Speaker 1 00:00:37 If you have a vision for the agency you want to build, then we want to help you build it. Welcome to the agency. Our podcast brought to you by agency Mavericks. Speaker 2 00:00:45 Today, we have a very special guest who is going to help us understand how to use other people's audiences, basically other people's groups, other people's communities to position yourself as an authority and attract leads, uh, and clients too. And she's built quite a significant business doing just that. Now our special guest today, before I introduce her, just give you a little bit of background. Uh, she joined Maverick's club back in, I think it was 2018. I wanna say. Yep. 2018. When, uh, I think they refer, I think the first cohort of people that joined Maverick's club referred to themselves as the test pilots, because we were literally kind of building it as the plane was, uh, taking off. Uh, she stayed in Maverick's club for a couple of years and then lost her mind and left for a year and had a, had a, had a momentary lapse of, of, of mental illness and left Mavericks club for a year. And we kept in touch on Voxer, which was kind of cool, just cuz I wanted to see what she was up to and gradually lure her back in to the dark side, which worked because she's just rejoined Mavericks, which I'm very excited about Speaker 2 00:01:57 And she is too. And so ladies and gentlemen, I would like to introduce you to one of my favorite people on the planet from Southern California, Samantha Johnson. Hey, semi Jake, come on down. Speaker 0 00:02:10 Hello. It's so great Speaker 2 00:02:12 To hear darling. Oh, it's so good to have you back. Fantastic. We've all missed you. Um, how I must ask, how was that year off in hell when you weren't in <laugh> how was the, how was the year in isolation? <laugh> Speaker 0 00:02:26 It was okay. It was okay. Um, it, uh, it was, uh, a time of trial and error and uh, you know, just trying to figure some things out and test waters in other places, you know, you always wonder what you don't have <laugh> Speaker 2 00:02:42 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's what my ex-girlfriend used to say. And your hair's grown, uh, since I last saw you. Wow. Speaker 0 00:02:50 Interestingly enough, it's actually just got chopped off it it oh wow. More than this, um, co COVID hair was, uh, you know, there's <laugh> it was, it was all the way down to my waist, so, uh, I just chopped out. Wow. Speaker 2 00:03:03 Wow. Speaker 0 00:03:04 I went to a, a hair stylist for the first time, I think in three years and said, all right, make it healthy. Speaker 2 00:03:09 <laugh> <laugh> love it. And um, and so for those that don't know, and most won't, uh, watching this for those that don'unno just tell us like who you are, where you're from, what you do and why the hell you're joining us here in the Facebook group. No pressure. Um, Speaker 0 00:03:27 No pressure. Um, okay. So I run a small agency of, uh, myself and 10 others. Uh, we do mainly membership websites on WordPress and we use access ally. Um, I started it back as a hobby in 2009. I went full time in 2013 and I started growing my team in 2018. So, uh, roughly right before joining Mavericks, um, and my team exploded over the last few years. So we now currently run a multi six figure agency, um, with several large clients and retainer clients. And it's just been one very exciting and fantastic ride <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:04:09 Wow. And, uh, so <laugh> I remember, um, and you know, when you join Mavericks, it wasn't like Mavericks is not the silver bullet, right? It's not like you don't join Mavericks, then all of a sudden the, the clouds part and the Pearl gates open, and then you have full access to everything you ever needed and you push a magic button and then you grow, uh, it's a, it's a grind, it's a struggle, you gotta figure stuff out. It's an amazing community. You get a lot of support and you get a lot of training and coaching, but when you fir what, what was like your first six months in Maverick's club? Like, because I just wanna give people an understanding when you joined, you were, I think you were under six figures, you're now multiple six figures. I want people to understand that it wasn't like joining Maverick's club was the, was like the, you know, this linear kind of path to growth. So I just kind of want people to understand what that looked like. Speaker 0 00:04:54 Yeah. So it actually was, I'd say my first year of Mavericks actually was probably it, it was pretty much a plateau. Um, it was a lot of learning new things and figuring out what was the right fit for us. So one of your phrases that I take into everything I do now is season to taste. Um, and that's really what it was. It was figuring out what I could take and then make it my own. Um, so from 2018 into 2019, they had almost, I had almost the exact same revenue for those two years. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, there wasn't really much growth that I could see, but then from 2019 to 2020, my second year in MAs, uh, I about four X to my revenue <laugh> mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and so that's when I finally like, because the first year was like, take everything Troy says and everything you learn in Mavericks and do it all. Speaker 0 00:05:47 And eventually you hit burnout and you go, I can't do all of that. And not all of that works for me. And when I finally said, okay, that's not the right fit, but this piece and this piece and this piece are, and I kept those few things and it just amplified everything the second year. Um, and then I took my one year break, COVID hit and everybody wanted <laugh> a business. And, uh, we exploded and did another, we doubled last year. Um, so, well we more than doubled actually, I think we almost we're about two and a half, I think percent almost. Wow. So yeah. Wow. We went from, so just because I'm super transparent, uh, 2018 and 19, we're roughly about 50, 60 K revenue years. We finished 2020 at 187 and we're just under 500 K for this year, just under, I'm literally like the last two weeks, come on, we can do it. <laugh> wow. Speaker 2 00:06:41 We've got Speaker 0 00:06:42 About pre we've got, uh, 12 K to hit that, that market. Wow. What Speaker 2 00:06:48 Pre for that's amazing. Say that. That's amazing. Um, what, this is not uncommon by the way. I've actually seen people join some of our programs and go backwards in the first six to 12 months and then take off. So this is not, this is not, um, it's not something that I planned and it's not something that's baked into the program. Hey, join my program and you'll lose money in the first year, but I promise you'll then make it up. It's not part of the pitch and it's not something we planned, but I've seen this happen. What, what do you, how did you get to a point where you, cause I had a really interesting conversation with Jenny Laken and once who's in Maverick's club and she was like, she, she basically said, you know, that might work for you, but I'm not going to do it. Speaker 2 00:07:30 And I was like, great. So what, because I know a lot of people come into our world and they're like, I'm just gonna do everything you tell me. And then they get overwhelmed and burnt out. Cuz they kind of forget that we've got a team of like 20 or 22 people here. So we can do a lot more than someone who's got a team of three. What, how did you, like at what point did you, you know, like what was the conversation in your head that was cause there's also FOMO as a thing, like you've gotta manage, I wanna do everything. I'm constantly saying this to my team. Like I wanna do one of everything yesterday. Like I'm super impatient. I wanna try everything. And my team are kind of constantly managing, well, it's not on this quarterly flight plan, so let's do it next quarter. At what point did you, did you kind of go, I I'm okay with not doing everything at the same time. Speaker 0 00:08:18 Um, that would've been the end of 2019. So I wanna say roughly around October, 2019. So I was just over the year mark in Mavericks mm-hmm <affirmative> and it was like, God, I'm not enjoying it. <laugh> I'm not, I'm not loving anything. Um, and it was, it was a moment of just having to step back and say I'm overwhelmed and uh, this isn't working. But the one thing that stood, stood out to me was, um, you know, you guys do the flight plans and everything. And one of the measurements is how much time do spend in your sweet spot. And it's that thing that you hit home about. And it was like, well, I'm not spending enough time in a sweet spot because nothing felt like it was the sweet spot mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so it was taking that step back and saying, well, what is, what is the sweet spot? And I hit that and that's when everything exploded. So sweet spot was really the, the key piece for me was, um, if you know your sweet spot and you know, all of that, then you're able to discern what pieces of the Maverick's teaching you can take in and just run with it and it's gonna help you amplify everything. Speaker 2 00:09:27 Yeah. And I think some people forget I've had this conversation with a few Mavericks recently. I'm like, you don't need to do this training, but one of your team members might benefit from this. So just get your team in. And I think some people I've had people ask me when they join Maverick. Oh, can I invite my business partner who is also my spouse and is an equal owner of the business. I'm like, of course you can do. Like you can, you can also invite you to IC and your ops manager if you want. And if you need your salesperson to join in, then by all means like the more, the more the merrier. Um, the, the other thing I wanna talk about is, uh, the, so first of all, before I dive into that, what is your sweet spot? How do you, how do you, how do you know you're in your sweet spot? Speaker 0 00:10:06 So for me, it's always been about relationships, which is a big reason for the conversation today. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, I am an ideas person. I am not somebody with the follow through mm-hmm <affirmative>. I mean, I love to build the websites and all of that. Sure. But, uh, my team can tell you this, my family could tell you this, I love to start projects. I never finish mm-hmm <affirmative> um, I get that from my mom <laugh> our house was always in a constant state of redo. Um, but, uh, but Speaker 2 00:10:32 Work in progress. Speaker 0 00:10:33 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I can't tell you how long my house had concrete floors growing up. Um <laugh> so, uh, but you know, it, it's one of those things. And so just knowing that about myself, knowing that I can come up with all of the ideas, I can talk to all the people and gain the rapport and, and find the clients. Uh, let me know that, you know, these are the people I need to fill these gaps, right? I need the people who can take the ideas and set the plan for it. I need the people who can take the project and finish it, you know, whatever it might be. And so, uh, as much as I could do some of that on my own, if I pushed myself, I wasn't going to be successful unless I stayed in my sweet spot, which was the strategies, the ideas, the, you know, really figuring out what we were going to do and then had all the implementers, uh, to help me get it done. Speaker 2 00:11:20 So this, my next question is I'm having this conversation with a couple of Mavericks right now is like, how do you know who to hire next? And how do you know when you can hire them? And because I think there's a, I, I know this from my own experience and also talking to lots of people over the last 10 years, that there's a massive fear around building the team because you then feel like you're responsible for like, it's just another mouth to feed. Right. So mm-hmm, <affirmative> how do you know when to hire and how do you know who to hire next? Speaker 0 00:11:52 For me, it was more of a, I just didn't feel like I could get it done on my own. Um, I was, I hit a limit, right? I was gonna either stay there and be happy where I was, or I was gonna push past and grow and start growing a team with it because I'm one person I have only so much capacity. Um, so, Speaker 2 00:12:14 So, so let's just park you for a second. So why not just, why not just stay? Why not just stay small? Speaker 0 00:12:20 I have bigger dreams. <laugh> um, so, uh, my dream actually, so I'm a little bit different than most, but my dream hasn't always been to necessarily build the business. It's been to build the team. So, uh, my big golden dream, you know, everybody talks about like, oh, I had a small lemonade stand or I was always an entrepreneur. I never really had the, like, I'm going to be an entrepreneur or I'm gonna have my own business. It was, I wanted to be the cool boss. I wanted to be the person who created the culture and the place where people could come to work, love what they do never feel afraid to, you know, have to take a day off and have the freedom and flexibility. And so building my business gave me the ability to be that. Um, and so that was part of finding my sweet spot. My sweet spot was I was meant to grow the team, not to necessarily grow into different tech pieces. Speaker 2 00:13:10 Mm mm. And so then it's really interesting that, you know, if you get around any of the, kind of, any of the thought leaders for one of a better word in the leadership space, like if you get around, you know, like the Dave Ramseys of the world and what they teach over entree leadership or the Ken Blanchards of the world, or any of those people that talk about leadership, they talk about this concept of servant leadership, which is your job as a business owner or as a leader, a CEO is to, is to lead your team and to serve your team, grow your team and empower them to serve your customers and grow your business. And it's a really interesting mindset shift. I see a lot of people growing a team and then trying to micromanage the team to, within an inch of their lives and turn them into little clones. Speaker 2 00:13:54 And it's, it's a, it's an awful way of doing it. And I think it's just be, and again, I think that's a fear of, you know, they one, they can't do it as well as I can. And two, if I let them off on a long leash who knows what they're gonna do, right. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> what I've learned over the years is if you let them off on a long leash, nine times outta 10, they'll surprise you with how amazing they are. And it's like, holy shit, there's no way I could have done that on my own. Even if I clone myself because like you, I'm terrible at follow through, I'll start a million projects and not finish any of them. Um, so, so then how do you know when you can afford to hire and, and how did you kind of know who to hire next? Speaker 0 00:14:34 So I tried to find people who I was comfortable looking at what they did for their own freelance work. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> and the people I hired. So I did have somebody who started as a VA and has grown into my ops manager, she's director of operations now. Um, but the real, like core person that I started with first was I hired somebody who did exactly what I did, um, because I wanted them to do the follow through with all of the projects so I could step out of the doing. And so I found somebody who did it with the aesthetics and the, um, the same level of coding and everything else that I could produce. Um, and I did it on a project basis. So I didn't worry about, could I retain them for X number of hours? I said, how much would you charge for this project? Speaker 0 00:15:22 Here's the scope. They gave me their flat rate. And then I added my rate onto it and presented that to the client. And so I was only tied to that person for one project mm-hmm <affirmative>. So it wasn't like I had to worry about what came next, because what came next, maybe a different project and maybe they helped and maybe they wouldn't, but yeah, they were only tied for that one. So I started with that until I grew into a space where I knew I had the means and I knew I had the, um, the savings and everything else in the bank account. Yeah. Where now I have people retained on an hourly basis. So, yeah. Speaker 2 00:15:57 Great. Yay for you. Well done. <laugh> uh, no, seriously, like you and I have had many Voxer conversations over the last 12 months. Mm-hmm <affirmative> when you had that, when you had that mental breakdown and, and left Mavericks, um, you, and I've had many conversations during that, during that year in, in isolation. And I've just been like, I've been getting Ving messages from you. And ju like, I remember being in the park once with the kids and I was maybe a Friday for you, which meant it was a Saturday for me. And you were just like telling me all these cool things that you'd done. And I, I was like walking around, I got a, my jaw hit the floor. I was just like, I got off the phone and, and, uh, went back to my, and by the way, I don't normally check Fox messages while I'm in the park with the kids on the weekend. Speaker 2 00:16:37 Uh, but your name came up and I'm like, Hey, what's, MEJ got to say, and I had a quick listen. And I went back to my wife and I'm like, oh my God, this is why I do what I do. It is so rewarding to see the transformation and to see people take massive action and probably frighten the shit outta themselves in the process of doing it and then get to the other side and have that realization and take on that responsibility. So it's been incredibly rewarding to see your journey. Um, what, so here's the thing when you, I had this conversation with someone yesterday who said, oh, you know, I don't really wanna grow my sales. I don't wanna grow my revenue right now because, you know, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, I couldn't really under, they couldn't really articulate one. I'm like, just walk me through this. Speaker 2 00:17:20 Like, cuz I have like a bit of a personal mantra, which is never stop advertising, never stop selling because I know that the more revenue that comes into the bank account, the more people I can hire and the more people I hire, the more that frees me up to stay in my sweet spot. So you bring on these, you bring in these people as contractors, you need to obviously make a margin on that, which I'll come back to and talk about in a second. Uh, but then how do you, how do you then say, okay, I, I have to grow my revenue. I have to keep my foot on the pedal and keep bringing the sales in. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> to pay for these other people that I wanna join in the team. What was the process there to, to go well now I have to make sure I've got, I mean, was it all just referrals and word of mouth or were you proactively like going after leads and looking for prospects? Speaker 0 00:18:11 I would say about 90% of it, we've been lucky and it's been referrals. Um, so, uh, we actually are our number one priority for 2022 is our high ticket sales funnel because we don't have one. And uh, we're like, all right, we've been fortunate, but at some point Fortune's going to run out. Um, so, uh, and then the other 10% is what you and I are, you know, gonna talk about later, which is just getting out there and creating those relationships in Facebook groups. Um, and having people find me that way. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so, um, I've done little to no marketing as far as like ads or anything of that nature. Um, it's really all been that. And I have a very tiny, uh, email list. I don't have a huge one, so we haven't done any of that sort of marketing yet. Um, so it it's really been, uh, a huge fortune for the last couple of years. I honestly am like pinching myself in a little unsure as to how in the world we accomplished so much. Uh, I didn't think it was possible, but uh, we've done it and it's, it's been amazing. Speaker 2 00:19:14 Awesome. I wanna come back and talk about the Facebook group thing in a second. Um, H how do you, I know a lot of people feel weird about hiring a contractor to do a job and then marking it up and putting a margin on top of it. A lot of people just have a mental block about that. Like, well, the guy charged me 500 bucks to build this thing. How can I charge two and a half grand? Because the guy who charged me 500 bucks, how do, like, what is that process for you? How do you, I mean, I'm seeing you up here. I know the answer to the question, but how do you justify adding the margin onto what someone's charging you as a contractor? Speaker 0 00:19:47 Well, uh, there's a couple of things. So first of all, I'll tell you from my side and second, I'll tell you from conversations I've had with my husband and both of our background prior to me creating the business. Um, so when I look at stuff, I look at how much overhead it's gonna cost me because that contractor doesn't have my same overhead. Um, and they're using my tools. The second is also that they didn't have to go out and do anything to get that client. So you've gotta think about the marketing that it took you to achieve, you know, getting that client. Um, and then you've gotta think, well, you're paying the taxes on it and you're doing all this. So you have to mark up in order to afford all of the things that keep your business running. Um, and then in a real world, or, or <laugh>, I guess it's all real world, but, uh, corporate world, uh, scenario, I come from having worked for a construction company prior to running my business and my husband still does. Speaker 0 00:20:43 And so he's constantly doing subwork, uh, or having subs do work for them. And their markup is two and a half, uh, two and a half percent for everything, a sub charges them is what they add on. Um, and it's just a real world scenario. If even doesn't matter who's doing what you don't just give it to the person for the same price it's costing you. You always have to have that markup to cover what, uh, what the difference is, cuz you have to pay yourself, you have to pay taxes, you have to pay the business. Otherwise you have zero profit. What are you doing? Um, so it's really just thinking about it and the fact of what are all of your expenses that are gonna come Speaker 2 00:21:17 Into life. Yeah. So two and a half times what they get charged is what they charge the client. Right? Exactly. And it's interest interesting because the pro form of the financial modeling that we build in Mavericks is we recommend you start at three. So whatever, whatever it costs you, you charge at least three times because mm-hmm, <affirmative> a third is what it costs you. A third is then what it costs you to run the business, pay taxes, insurance, all that kinda stuff. And then a third is your profit. Um, and, and it's really interesting like people have this, not everyone, but a lot of people have this weird thing about profit that they feel, they feel dirty about making profit. Speaker 0 00:21:50 For me, profit just means the more I can feed into my team. So mm-hmm, <affirmative> for me, the more profit I have, the more I pay for trainings for them, or the more we can do retreats and meet in person. It's the more I can, uh, give value to my team. Like you mentioned before, my job is to serve my team and my team job is to serve my clients. So mm-hmm, <affirmative> the profit just means I can serve them more. I can serve them better. Um, so it's not about being dirty or having to make this huge profit. Now I will say unlike some, I do try to keep the profit a little bit smaller, not for the purpose of actually keeping a small profit. Um, but I try to kind of balance it out with taxes <laugh> because here in California, it's hell yeah. I'm constantly in touch with my accountant of like how much more can I make and what do I need to spend money on? I'm like, should I buy a computer this year with that profit? Or should, or, or, or is it okay to keep it in the bank as, as savings so, Speaker 2 00:22:51 Or constant or stuff like that move to Florida at some point, like a lot of Californians do or Nashville like Amy Porterfield did recently. Um, yes. Marvin or Speaker 0 00:23:00 Get a human's island account. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:23:02 <laugh> yeah. Yeah. Marvin said, uh, uh, Sammy just said something that usually no one mentions, which is the cost of getting the client. So nice segue, Marvin also known as a anonymous Facebook user. Uh, if you are listening to this as a podcast and not in the group, you should really come and join the digital Mavericks Facebook group. It's lots of fun. Um, nice segue into the cost of getting a client. Now let's, let's not talk about the cost of running ads, cause that's a whole other conversation. I wanna talk about the sweat equity and the time that you put into using other people's communities, whether it's Facebook groups like groups, whatever it is to position yourself and to attract people that way. So first, I mean, and there's so much to unpack here, but first of all, I wanna talk about like at, at, at what point did you think that this might be a good idea to actually go out and, and use other people's communities to try and attract clients? Speaker 0 00:23:57 It's actually how my business started and it's the only way I'd ever known. Um, so in 2009, when I started playing with WordPress and, uh, building websites for friends and family, um, I had just had my daughter. I was also in a lot of mom groups and at the time being a mom blogger was one of the biggest things out there. Um, not to say it's not big anymore, but I mean, it was like the thing back then Uhhuh and I had a lot of mom friends that said, Hey, I'm in this blogger group and they could really use your expertise. You wanna come in and, and help and whatever. And I was like, sure. And so it's naturally where I started. I just was giving value in helping them figure out how to do stuff on WordPress or charging them to move their stuff from blogger to WordPress and, um, and building the relationships that way. So it came very naturally because that's how I entered, but I entered in a way of give value, not promote a business, cuz I didn't have a business or I didn't think I had one anyway at the time. Um, it was just kind of a hobby. And so I entered the world saying here, what can I help with? Speaker 2 00:25:03 Hmm. And then at some point it becomes a channel for you to actually pick up paying clients. I see, I see people like all the time. I mean I'm, I'm on the, I'm on the receiving end of it all the time. And I see it happen in groups all the time where people just, you know, it's like inappropriate behavior at a family, barbecue with like your brother's new girlfriend who you've just met for the first time. And you like start flirting with her within 10 seconds. It's like, dude, just keep it in your trackies and calm down for fuck sake. Right? Like what, like why I know and some people are just like, well you are here, I'm impatient. I'm just gonna try and pitch you straight away. Uh, how do you, how do you, what's the mindset around like just giving value and not expecting anything in return? How do you manage your own expectations? Speaker 0 00:25:52 I think for me, um, it comes naturally to give, um, it's my personality. Uh, I'm definitely one of those people in real life where, you know, somebody gets sick and I'm probably the first one to say, what do you need? And let me drop off some groceries. Um, and so I just like to think about it in that same respect when you're there, you're at somebody else's party, but you can still be helpful. Um, it doesn't mean you need to take over and become host mm-hmm <affirmative>, but you can be super helpful and you know, if somebody needs directions to the bathroom, you can give it. Um, so mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it, it, it's not about, you know, telling people what to do or, uh, teaching them in posts. It's honestly about being there to answer questions. Speaker 2 00:26:34 Mm. In fact, one thing I've learned is I learned this early on just from observing people at physical events, right. Is mm-hmm <affirmative> like I would go to these weekend training events to learn how to do public speaking and you know, learn how to do internet marketing back in the day. And, and one thing I, I learned is that being the way to, uh, and again, I think this just comes naturally for me as well, like breaking into a community like that and being super helpful, but then also making sure that you give props and kudos to the host so that you're constantly elevating the host and thanking them for facilitating this community. And that way you get invited back. And I know that sounds like manipulative and strategic and deliberate, but it, it was, it didn't start off that way. I just noticed this behaviors like, Hey, I can be helpful cause I know a little bit about this, but it's not my event it's Toby's event. Speaker 2 00:27:24 And so I, I remember this clearly at the end of this weekend called seven figure speaker where my friend Toby gave this. He like gave his all for two days and taught us a whole bunch of stuff about being a speaker and an MC. And he's a very successful speaker here in Australia. And at the end of the Sunday afternoon, he was wrapping up and kind of, you know, saying thank you and everything. And we were all kind of clapping. And then before I let everyone leave the room, I stood up and actually thanked him for how much energy he'd given us all over the last couple of days. And he was like, oh man, that's very gracious of you. Thank you so much. And he did not expect it at all. And he, and I really connected in just over that moment and we actually stayed friends afterwards and we kept our relationship going afterwards and I still, you know, keep in touch with him. And it was just because I knew had the amount of work involved in putting on an event like that. And I was like, no, no, we can't let you leave without thinking you. And so, so being helpful, but also continuing to elevate and, and having gratitude for the host will make sure you get invited back into that group. Whereas if you try and take over as host that the person who owns that group just won't invite you in and they'll, they, you know, might even kick you out. Speaker 0 00:28:32 Oh yeah. And I've definitely had experiences like that. I wasn't kicked out of a group, but I, I left because of friction with the host. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> in the early days, you know, when you're overly helpful, they can sometimes feel like you're stepping on their toes, especially if that's their, their topic. Yeah. And so that was also one of the things that I learned quickly was know the groups that you're in. It's not just about going into groups and being helpful where your audience lives. But like if there's somebody who has like a web designer's group and they're using it to promote their business, careful, you know, being helpful in that group because they likely wanna be top dog. Um, and so it's really about knowing where, where you're at, who the audience is, who the host is and making sure that you're giving the right you're giving in the right spaces and giving in, uh, the right type of value. Speaker 2 00:29:22 Mm. Now do, was it you, I can't remember if it was you or Jenny Laken and who told me that, um, you have in the past, you have actually bought a course that you didn't particularly want the course, but you wanted access to the Facebook group that you knew was gonna have hundreds of your ideal client in that group. Speaker 0 00:29:42 Yes, that was me. Um, and that's actually, so the, the story I told you about loosely before we got on was exactly from that group and that experience. Ah, um, so I joined Stu McLaren tribe I'm have my own membership, but I build memberships. So I wanted, I wanted to see what nuggets he had. And I knew that Facebook group was gonna be filled with a bunch of people building memberships, or at least who wanted to, so yeah, they likely would need my services at some point. Um, and so really getting in there and being part of it. Um, and I actually did gain a client from being in that group. And it was actually from exact doing exactly what we've been talking about. I was giving value. People were talking about tech because of course in, uh, courses or membership type groups, uh, I was also in DCA this past year, uh, Amy Porterfield's, uh, one about courses. And it's the first thing everybody asks about, which is of course not the first question you should have when you're trying to that's content that's that's right. Is, you know, what am I gonna build it on? Oh my God, the Speaker 2 00:30:43 Job you all think is, Speaker 0 00:30:44 Yeah, exactly. And they're constantly asking these questions before they even know what the heck is going into what they're offering and, you know, so I just casually ask, answer questions and help them out and give encouragement and say, Hey, you know, it's okay not to know the tech right now. And you know, it's okay to start small and build up later and give them all that sort of, uh, value and, and motivation and inspiration. And probably about, um, a month or two into, we hadn't even finished the program yet. Uh, I got an email that was, Hey, I found you in tribe. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and you come highly recommended. I was, who knows me in tribe. That's recommending me. I'm like, nobody knows me in tribe, uh, and got on the call with them. And she said, well, actually, I've been watching you. I saw you responding to other people's posts and you've been so helpful. Speaker 0 00:31:38 I had to reach out and see if you could help us. And she ultimately ended up hiring us to do her membership. And she's a food blogger located here in LA. Her husband is a big time video production guy. She's friends with re Drummond, the pioneer woman. I mean, I was like, you never know who you're gonna meet <laugh> yeah. So, um, yeah, that's brought and it's all just from popping in and helping people out. Yeah. That's I never once even listed my, my URL or my, uh, a link to my profile or anything. It was just me answering questions. Speaker 2 00:32:10 Yeah. And then, and then, so what do you like, do you optimize your profile so that when people go, oh, who's this Samantha Johnson and they click the thing and then they go through and they look at your profile. Is your profile like perfectly optimized to bring those people in like some kind of organic funnel or Speaker 0 00:32:27 Somewhat? So my main profile does, I made sure all my links were there and a hundred percent, my links are public because most people forget to make those public. Um, so a hundred percent, all of that's there, which is how she found my website and was able to send the inquiry, um, and all of that. Um, but there's a new-ish feature that my team and I are still working on. And that is that they now allow you to have personalized profiles per group. And so when you're in a group, you can actually go, yeah, you can go view yourself. And that little bio that you get in your main profile, you can change that for every group that you're in. Speaker 2 00:33:05 Wow. Speaker 0 00:33:05 And so they see a different one. So now, you know, when you click on somebody's, uh, somebody's picture or, or their name in a group, and it comes up with like the posts that they've engaged with recently in that group and, and that stuff. And it's just all group related. There's a little bio there that you can actually have that's before they get to your main profile. So, um, that's what my team and I are actually working on now is what are the groups that are most lucrative for us? And how can we position that with, uh, a better little bio Speaker 2 00:33:36 Mm-hmm <affirmative> and then do you generally link people to, like, where do you want them to go from your Facebook profile? Do you want them to go to like your portfolio or do you want them to go to like a, a free piece of content or your contact form perhaps, or <laugh> said, no one ever, what, like what, what's the next thing you want them to do? Speaker 0 00:33:57 So typically I actually do use the homepage. I know it's not the most common, but, uh, we've optimized our homepage to really be that initial conversation. And then, um, secondary to that is maybe an opt-in that we feel. So that's actually what we're working on with, uh, the optimized, uh, bios is, uh, a particular optin that will fit that group. So whether they're working on content for their website, or maybe they're in a spot where developing their ICA before they even go into anything else is needed. Um, and so we'll, we'll be sending them to our opt-ins as well. But, um, we, over the last year changed our homepage to a little bit different of, of philosophy. It's somewhat similar to what StoryBrand recommends mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, but the way I like to talk about it is, um, I tell everybody that, uh, you need to, sorry. Speaker 0 00:34:51 Um, you need to think about it kind of like an in person meeting. So like when you're meeting somebody at a networking event, um, having that initial conversation, what is that like? So that you've, uh, you taught unique value proposition and I still talk about it, uh, as the first thing, right? I mean, it's kind of that elevator pitch that you're gonna give everybody. Hi, I'm so, and so, and this is what I do. Um, and that's the same thing at the top of our website. It's that main thing. And then the next piece is, um, what that person says back to you. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, they're usually going to respond with, oh my gosh, that's so cool that you do that. I've had this issue or that issue, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you get that little bit of like, I see you, these are, you know, some of the things you're, um, some of your pain points and some of the, um, some of the things you're aspiring to, and then usually in that same conversation, you say, oh my gosh, I can totally help you. And you give them a little bit more of your story, same thing on the homepage. So my homepage really walks through that conversation. So if it's the first place I send somebody, they're just gonna have that conversation with me. Speaker 2 00:35:54 Love it, love it. Love it, love it. Now you don't have your own Facebook group, do you? Speaker 0 00:35:59 No, I don't. Right. <laugh> I don't. Speaker 2 00:36:01 So, so for, for someone, because for someone starting out, like I get this probably the number, so here's what I, here's what I wanna unpack. Right. And this is, I haven't prepped you here at all. So I might be throwing one under the bus, which is a favorite hobby of mine. Um, especially for people who leave Mavericks for you. Um, it's okay. Speaker 0 00:36:18 We're good friends. I can handle it. Speaker 2 00:36:20 <laugh> so for someone who's like, okay, I like the number one conversation or the number one question that we get is I need leads. Like I, you know, I need to do, I need to get some leads. And I know that leads are everywhere that getting leads is not the problem. The problem is actually coming up with something that resonates with people enough to get them to put their hand up. Right. So I believe the offer or the message is the problem, not the leads, but for someone starting out, what would be the process for them to like, how, how would they iden or like, how would they like find the groups that they should belong to? And then what's kind of like maybe the first sort of three to four weeks of activity in that group and kind of what should their expectations be because it's, it's not a silver bullet, right? Speaker 0 00:37:08 No, it's definitely not. Um, and I think that if you don't know the person that you're trying to sell to or serve, um, you're never gonna find the right Facebook group. Um, so for me, when I started out, it was moms and so, and women, and so I was in every female business owner, moms group, et cetera. Now, not every female business owner and mom's group was the right one. And so my biggest recommendation is join. As many as you can find mm-hmm <affirmative> and then sit and listen, don't, don't jump right in. Be the lurker, be the person who says is this the right space? What are the conversations they're having, having, cuz you can get into some groups and it's like people bickering and fighting and it gets political and the hosts let it go. And you're just like, mm, no, thanks. I don't wanna work with these people. Speaker 0 00:37:58 So you wanna be careful what you jump into. And so just sitting there and, and watching is the number one thing I would recommend for the first little bit. And then as you're sitting there, you're going to naturally feel in some of the groups a little bit more pulled to, to engage. And that's when it's time and just start answering other people's posts. Um, it's so much better to start by commenting than to start by putting up a post from somebody, nobody in the group knows. And they go, who the heck are you to tell us any of this? Yes. Um, so really building the rapport and the relationship by answering what other people have asked. Speaker 2 00:38:32 Right? So if they, this is I'm really impatient, I just go into groups and go, Hey, boo. And just ask a question and try and get some engagement, cuz I'm an idiot. Uh, but if people see you commenting and just being helpful on other people's posts, I have a little trick for this, by the way, which I'll share in a second. Uh, if people see you being helpful on other people's posts, then over time, you kind of build up a little bit of authority in that group or a bit of recognition and then you start your own posts. So one thing that I do is I go into a group and I search for the posts that have the most comments because they are the ones that are most because it remember if you're in your Facebook feed, like you don't see every post from every group that you're in. Speaker 2 00:39:14 You, you only see the posts that Facebook thinks are the most engaging because Facebook's job is to keep you in the platform. So you click on the ads, right? So I look for the posts in the groups that have the most comments and I generally try and contribute to that conversation because I'm hedging my bets, that that post is gonna come up in someone's feed in, in the group members' feed. And they're actually gonna see my name. And I've actually had posts that I've commented on two years ago, resurface in my feed like this week, because someone's commented on something I said two years ago and I'm like, oh, holy shit. We're back here. Are we? And uh, so, you know, I, I, if, if someone had, even if someone has a super relevant post in a Facebook, I'm like, yeah, I've got an opinion on this and no one else has commented. I'm like, well, I'm probably wasting my time because no, one's engaging with that post. So I'm gonna leave it alone. Um, the, and do you, so do you, the other thing that I sometimes do again, is I actively search a group. If a, if it's a large group with a lot of content I'll search for things that I know I can help with. Is that something that you do to try and maximize the time that you spend in a group or to minimize the time you spend in a group? Speaker 0 00:40:20 Yes. To some extent. Um, I think for a lot of it, the algorithm starting to get my drift and, uh, shows me mostly what I wanna see. Um, so it's usually just whatever's in my feed these days, but yeah, back in the day when I was in so many groups and there, you know, like back when I was in boss mom and there's like 50,000 people and probably, you know, thousands of posts a day sure. Yes, I'm going to probably search for it. Um, but uh, most of the groups I'm in now are a little bit smaller, so it's a lot easier to just kind of feed through it and find what is most helpful. Um, and I especially like, like a tribe, they actually shoot out a newsletter. So I love finding groups that do that, uh, where I actually just check my email on tribe, uh, because they'll say like, ask these people, ask these, this question, tech, these people are having issues with tech. Speaker 0 00:41:13 Hey, that's probably something I need to jump in to, you know? And it's like, they'll, they'll give you different categories of ones, uh, to go check out. And so I usually grab some of those because those are also, as you said, the ones that have had the most comments and are probably the most widely seen pop up in people's feeds. Um, I think for me, one difference between the comments or not comments is, uh, regardless of the number of comments already existing on a post, if I'm super passionate about it, I going to respond because my passion will show in my response. Speaker 2 00:41:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Good advice. Um, what about any other communities that aren't Facebook groups? So, so we are kind of moving a lot of our stuff over to circle dot. So which is like a mm-hmm, <affirmative> kind of like a closed kind of like Facebook group functionality without all the noise and distraction. Um, because I, what I do know is that a lot, I'm, I, I'm seeing a lot of people struggling with imposter syndrome, not feeling like they're enough, not feeling like, you know, they should be doing more. They could be doing more, they ought to be doing more because when they're on social media, they're basically just getting bombarded with like the bullshit highlight reel of everyone. Else's beautiful life, which is just not true. And when we work in our own, even if we work with the team, we work remotely, we, we are not actually hearing gratitude and validation throughout the day. All we are hearing is everyone else's, you know, wonderful success. And I, and I'm seeing a lot of people at the moment, having conversations with a lot of people who are really struggling with self-esteem and kind of mental health issues and anxiety, because, you know, they're spending too much time on social media and because they're on social media, you know, trying to get clients. So do you do anything outside of Facebook groups, like slack channels or, or circle communities or anything else? Speaker 0 00:42:57 I have a couple of those. I wouldn't say I necessarily get leads in those. Uh, I would say most of them do come from Facebook groups. Um, but I do participate in some that are outside of Facebook. Um, I think it's definitely an up and coming space. Um, especially like you said, circle, um, which I think is, I mean, it's on, circle's one of my favorites too, uh, because it's like Facebook and slack had a baby. Um, yeah, Speaker 2 00:43:21 That's right. I love circle. I love that's Speaker 0 00:43:23 Great. And it is without the noise. So, um, I do like that a lot, but I think for the most part, Facebook has been my, my primary. Um, and I think for anybody struggling with imposter, cause I can definitely say that in the early days, it was really hard to comment when there were a lot of people with opinions and a lot of people with advice, uh, because the one thing I didn't wanna do was, you know, respond and have somebody tell me I was wrong. Um, and that was the biggest imposter syndrome for me inside of Facebook was what if somebody calls me out and tells me that this is wrong and then corrects me and I'd say, my number one piece of advice for that is be wrong. Um, yeah, it's better to comment and be wrong and then respond to it with grace than to not comment at all. And just look at it as a way to learn. And people are going to appreciate that you respond with grace when you make a mistake. Speaker 2 00:44:17 Yeah. My, my wife said to me, once she's got a, a podcast early career psychology podcast, which is she's kind of neglected and she's got a Facebook group, which she's kind of neglected as well. Uh, and she's like, I would never leave a comment in someone else's PO in someone else's Facebook group. She's like, I just would never do that. Like the idea of doing that terrifies her, I'm like, wow, super interesting. Like it just doesn't like, I, I kind of like being opinionated. I like stir the pot and throwing, throwing a hand grenade in the room and going, wow, look at that. I'm like that guy at a party that says something divides the room and I'm like, yes, <laugh>, uh, cuz otherwise shit gets boring real quick. Uh, and she's just like never gonna do that because you know, probably she doesn't wanna come across as being opinionated or she doesn't wanna be wrong or yeah, it's, it's really interesting. Um, but how do you manage your time that you, like, how do you not just get sucked into the Facebook vortex and spent your entire day there? Speaker 0 00:45:10 Well time in the early days, uh, I was sucked into the vortex now I don't have enough time to be sucked into the vortex. Um, yeah. Yeah. So it's definitely about having dedicated time. Um, I also, I also made sure to turn off notifications, so I do not have my phone telling me every time somebody posts in Facebook or comments on a comment or anything else because that can a hundred percent, uh, get you, you know, stepped off in, you know, an hour down the road. You're like, whoa, where'd time go. Um, and so it's definitely about choosing the, the right time. And I think as you get used to being in different groups, you'll notice when people are in those groups at certain times. Um, and it's most productive for you as well as, um, just the fact that, uh, for me, it's, uh, it's not about, you know, spending all day, like don't go into the feeds, uh, ignore your feed for the longest time I used the, and I don't even know if it exists anymore. Uh, but Facebook had a group's only app. I don't think it does, but was a big one that, uh, that was a big one for me because then I could just ignore the feed altogether because all I could see was the groups. Speaker 2 00:46:19 Yeah. That's why they killed it. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:46:22 Yeah. Go with purpose and ignore the feed. So literally just go into the groups. Speaker 2 00:46:27 Yep. Speaker 0 00:46:27 And uh, and know what you're there for. Speaker 2 00:46:29 Yeah, that's right. It's the difference between like going into, uh, department store, knowing exactly what you want mm-hmm <affirmative> and just going to that department and buying it versus just walking into a depart store going well, I'm just gonna spend a couple of hours browsing around. Um, and so having intent, uh, Sheila herd says they have an app that hides your feed. Yes. There is an, there is a app that hides your feed. Um, they killed the groups app because what they realized they can't monetize groups. They haven't figured out a way to monetize groups cuz there are no ads in groups. Right. So, so what happened is when they had the groups, app engagement was going down, engagement was going up in the groups, but there's no way of monetizing the groups, so they killed it. So here we go. So the, the feed killer, I don't think is an official Facebook app. I think it's a third party app that basically just hide it, like, you know, hacks the HTL on the CSS and just kind of like hide your feet or whatever it does. It's a Chrome extension. Um, do you have, uh, does anyone else help you manage your time in Facebook or is it just you at the moment? Speaker 0 00:47:33 It's just me at the moment. Most of my team focuses on, um, delivery of our stuff. Um, as far as bringing in leads, it's mostly been me though. We may change that over this next year. We'll see. Speaker 2 00:47:48 Yeah. Mm mm. Yeah. Yeah. Um, awesome. Okay. So what questions should I have asked and haven't Speaker 0 00:47:55 Oh man, I don't know. You asked a lot. Um, Speaker 2 00:47:59 Is there anything we missed that you're like, oh, I wanna, I would definitely wanna talk about that or, or, you know, that's a, that's a, a, a hack or a tip or a tactic or something that we've missed. Speaker 0 00:48:08 No, I mean, I feel like for the most part we've talked about like where, which groups to look in. Um, I think that's probably the biggest one and the biggest fear for people is where to find the right group. Um, and I really do feel it's just about knowing who your, uh, ideal client is. So, I mean, if you're looking to work with, uh, construction companies, make sure you're finding groups where all of those contractors are. Um, you know, there there's a group for everything out there. I know it doesn't feel like it, but there is. Um, and so you just have to really know who you wanna talk to, um, for us right now, uh, I mean, for the most part, I'm in membership groups, but a lot of our clients are coming in, in the health and wellness industry. And so now where I'm spanning out is okay, great. Speaker 0 00:48:55 Let's look for health and wellness. Um, I think one of the, one of the most interesting ones for me is Jenny Lakeman is actually, uh, one of my biggest referrals, her and her branding gal, uh, Dina mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, uh, so I get a lot of LCS people, a lot of the life coaching school people, um, because, uh, Jenny and Dina will do branding and front end website, but they don't do the membership. Yep. Um, so coaches, things like that. So really knowing the groups and spaces to be in. Um, yeah. And then you could also take Jenny's, uh, Jenny's trick of, uh, becoming a certified life coach and then doing websites for life coaches. <laugh> that's Speaker 2 00:49:33 Right. Oh, she's done. She's she's done amazing. She's done amazing amazingly well over there. Um, so the, the way I look at this is anyone like business coaches for a vertical. So if you found like a, a business coach or a marketing coach or a growth coach or a mastermind for dentists, mm-hmm <affirmative>, that would be a great group to hang out in because what those coaches essentially gonna do is like teach strategy, but they don't do implementation. And they actually look to partner with people around implementation, which is actually how Jenny gets a lot of her works through the life coach community. Yep. Because Brooke is teaching, like, here's what you gotta do, but we don't do the implementation. So the, any, you know, if your vertical is, you know, tradies here in Australia, for example, home contractors, as you guys call 'em, there's a bunch of trade coaches here in Australia and New Zealand who do really well and have great groups, but they don't do any of the implementation and they just wanna refer people on and have them well looked after. Speaker 2 00:50:29 So getting in that group, making, and then once you, once you establish that this is the right group for me to belong, to make introducing yourself to the admin, just pinging the admin privately and saying, Hey, this is who I am. This is what I do. I'm not here to separate anyone's toes. I'm here to be super helpful. Would love to have a conversation. Sometime if you have clients that you wanna refer, this is our sweet spot. It's our wheelhouse, we've got social proof. We've got testimonials, we're reliable. This is what we do. We'd love to figure out a way to partner up. Um, or Speaker 0 00:50:57 You could even take it back and find out. So the coaches, so like, if this is your ideal client, and then there's coaches for that type of person, you can figure out where those coaches are hanging out and go build relationships with them. They may not be your ideal client, but being your ideal partner is a great way to take it in as well. And so that was a big one in my early days. I mean, I was in savvy business owners group led by Heather Crabtree. It's where I met Dana, uh, mall staff who does boss mom. And that's how I got Dana as a client. And then Dana referred people to me because her ideal clients were, and you know, it starts a cycle. And so sometimes it's not just about finding your ideal client in a group, it's about finding people who can refer your ideal client and just building those relationships. Speaker 2 00:51:44 Yeah, exactly. Um, uh, I'm just making some notes here. Thank you very much. Um, Martin Sanders says I was interested to see that you offer site kits and bespoke. Can you talk us through the, the difference there Martin spends, uh, stalking your website? Speaker 0 00:52:00 Yeah, <laugh> um, so actually we started the site kits. They're kind of in a soft launch, so to speak right now. Um, and we're really, we started with those as like a trial. Um, the membership site kits that we're working on are actually the ones that we want to full launch, and those will be coming out next year. Um, and it's because we hit a point where I have 10 other people that work for me. Um, our rates are no longer affordable to all, and there were, uh, definitely a few no's that we got, we don't get too many, but the few that we do, we wanna still give value and we needed something that was a little bit more passive ish. It's not exactly passive when you have to build the, the kits. Um, but it does allow you to be semi passive. And so we were looking at ways to kind of bridge that gap and, uh, so that's what the site kits were about. So Speaker 2 00:52:52 Love it. Speaker 0 00:52:54 Yeah. So we can still do some of our bespoke, but we can do less. <laugh> Speaker 2 00:52:58 Awesome. Love it. Love it. Love it. Well, Hey, Sammy J it's been amazing to have you here in the group. Thank you so much. I've been looking forward to this for such a long time. Thanks for joining us on the agency. It's so good to have you back in. Maverick's love. I can't wait to help you get to seven figures. Uh, if that's what you wanna do, um, fingers cross. We were halfway there. No, you've got, you've got two. You've got two kids, right? Is that right? Two or three? Yes, two, two. And you also during this incredible growth period that you had, you were basically homeschooling the kids too, right? Because of lockdown, right? For a period of time. Oh Speaker 0 00:53:30 Yeah. <laugh> I was, I wasn't yeah, I was teacher. I was mommy. I was business owner. It was wild, uh, which is also a big part of growing the team. But the amazing thing is, is my team. So there's myself and 10 others. Nine of those 10 are also moms. Speaker 2 00:53:48 That's amazing. I, we had, uh, our kindies and daycares were closed for a period of eight weeks was the, kind of the longest that everything was completely shut. And I was working full time from home. My wife was looking after two kids full time for eight weeks. And I said to her, like, whatever, I owe you, whatever you want at some point when we can, like, I owe you whatever, like the, you know, what you name it because I couldn't, I couldn't look after the kids on my own for eight days, let alone eight weeks. So I struggled for eight hours. Uh, and <laugh>, and so I, I don't know how you did it. Um, I, you have the U my utmost respect for, for doing that. And, um, I don't think many men could multitask that successfully and, uh, manage to parent teach and grow business at the same time. So, uh, you're a legend. Thank you so much. It's great to have you back in Maverick. Thank you. Can't wait to hang out in real life. I can't wait for the travel restrictions to be fully released and we can come and hang out in, uh, in the states again. Look forward to seeing you again some time next year. Speaker 0 00:54:50 Yes. Thank you so much for having me. It was so awesome to chat with you again. Speaker 2 00:54:53 Awesome. Thanks, Jay. All right, gang. That is another episode of the agency hour live here in the digital Mavericks Facebook group. Uh, by the time you're listening to this, this will probably be a podcast. So please get on over to Spotify or apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcasts and make sure you subscribe or follow or whatever you need to do to make sure that you get the next episode. Uh, my name is Troy Dean. I'm the main host here at the agency hour is brought to you by agency Mavericks. And of course we live stream this every week into the digital Mavericks Facebook group. So if you are not in that group coming over and join the group and, and get amongst the conversation. All right, stay safe. Wherever you are. Look forward to chatting with you all again soon till then. I'm Troy Dean bye for now. Have a great day. Speaker 1 00:55:32 Thanks for listening to the agency hour podcast, subscribe at apple podcasts, Spotify pocket, audible, and wherever you like to listen, you can catch all of the agency hour episodes on our YouTube channel at Mavericks. Or you can get involved, check out our free digital Mavericks Facebook group, where we broadcast these episodes live for our community every week, along with a ton of free training. We'll see you there.

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The Ultimate Content Creation Framework

In this episode of The Agency Hour, Troy and Pete break down the 4 agreements that you need to bake into your content, so...