How to fill your calendar with inbound appointments each day without cold outreach

Episode 45 July 22, 2022 00:57:05
How to fill your calendar with inbound appointments each day without cold outreach
The Agency Hour
How to fill your calendar with inbound appointments each day without cold outreach

Jul 22 2022 | 00:57:05

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Hosted By

Troy Dean Johnny Flash

Show Notes

If you are NOT consistently acquiring new clients for your agency then you need to tune into the Agency Hour this week.  Our guest Thisura Chandrarathna, who is also our Fractional Chief Marketing Officer will be sharing his inside secrets to generating new clients fast. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 How do you deal with that situation where like you start off with a client and then you realize after a couple of weeks, this client's just numbed in. They're just not gonna give me what I need to actually get results. Do you just fire them? Or how do you coach them through that? Speaker 1 00:00:12 I think it depends. Right. There's levels to it. Right? Like if it's someone who's just a blatant Dick head, like you have no tolerance for that. Like, you're just sorry, man. Like, I, I fucking messed up. You should have never worked here. Like I should have never let you in. Right. <laugh> so for those guys, you can let them go like right away. Yeah, yeah. Right. For the people where it's just like, they're not implementing certain things. Like it's just client management 1 0 1. Right. So if I notice for a few weeks things aren't getting implemented into moving slowly, I'll just schedule a call with them and just reset expectations. Right. Let them know like, Hey, here's the objective that we set when we started working together. Here's what we're doing on our end. But we're bottleneck because we're not getting these things in time. Like, is this something you still wanna achieve? Speaker 1 00:00:47 Because we're gonna give you everything you need. But like, we're not, we're like bottleneck by this one thing. Right. And just reset expectations with them. And a lot of times, like, you'll, you'll find out that either they weren't getting enough context from you, you weren't giving them enough. Or they're like, no shit, man. Like, I'm just really busy right now. Like, like, can we work something? And then you just have to find like a compromise for those people. But like, I just like to reset expectations at a lot, like 90% of the time, if you reset expectations, retie it back to the goal that they want. Like they're like, okay dude, I understand I messed up. I'll I'll do it. Speaker 2 00:01:15 If you have a vision for the agency you want to build, then we want to help you build it. Welcome to the agency. Our podcast brought to you by agency Mavericks. Speaker 0 00:01:24 Hey ladies and gentlemen, welcome to, uh, another episode of the agency hour live here in the digital Mavericks Facebook group. That's one James trod. One, two. I think we have two. There we go. He knows what I'm talking about. No one else does. And that's the way it should be. Sorry. We're running a little bit late. Had a bit of a disrupted night of sleep last night. That's what happens when you have a five year old and a two year old who come into your bed in the middle of the night and scratch around like meth addict and keep you awake. However, we are here. We are live in the digital Mavericks Facebook group. And this is an episode of the agency out where we help you grow your agency. Whether it's a web design agency, an SEO agency, or a digital marketing agency, design branding funnels, copy you name it. Speaker 0 00:02:09 Uh, this is the show where you come and learn about how to grow that agency of yours and turn it into a profitable asset for you. And we talk about, uh, sales and marketing. We talk about lead gen. We talk about growing your team. We talk about becoming more profitable. We talk about productizing, recurring revenue, all the good stuff. So if you are listening to this and you're in the digital Mavericks Facebook group, let us know in the comments where you are from so we can get an affirmative that it's all working. And, uh, it's also just good to know where people are from in the world. And if you are listening to this on your air pods or your God forbid, Samsung galaxy plus buds or whatever, those bloody horrible things are that I tried to use recently, and couldn't get them to talk to anything except the fridge. Speaker 0 00:02:55 Uh, if you are listening to us on some kind of earphone device, come and join the digital Maverick Facebook group, cuz we have lots of fun and we have new cameras and lights and we are showing off. So come and check it out and be a part of the conversation today. I'm very, very pleased to bring a special guest to talk to us about probably the number one conversation that we have here with our clients. Uh, and the number one question we get asked all the time, which is how do I just go and get me some more clients and to debunk this myth and to break it down and to tell us everything he knows, I'm gonna introduce you to our very own fractional CMO. We're gonna talk about what the hell that means too. Please welcome all the way from Canadian. My good friend tissue, Chand Ana, Hey tissue. How you doing brother? Speaker 1 00:03:41 Doing good, doing good Canadian. That's a new way to put Speaker 0 00:03:44 It. <laugh> Speaker 1 00:03:46 Excited to be on Speaker 0 00:03:47 You even put on a nice shirt for the show. Isn't it Speaker 1 00:03:49 Did. I literally, I was wearing a black crap, like a crap black shirt and I just changed. Like I had to. Speaker 0 00:03:54 I've only ever seen you in like crappy black t-shirts man. I don't even know who you're. Speaker 1 00:03:58 It's just what have you crappy? Yeah, it's either the black shirt or the white shirt, both for and M for 10 Speaker 0 00:04:04 <laugh>. There we go. No expense. Hey. So for those that, uh, for those that D know, who are you, what are you doing here? What are you do? And where are you from? Speaker 1 00:04:13 Yeah, so I'm from Canada and uh, yeah, I guess long story short, we have a company that specializes in scaling brands. A lot of our companies, uh, like Troy mentioned, we come in as a fractional chief marketing officer for their brand. Um, we've been doing it for about the past five years now and yeah, our company's called scale with less and that's really the emission. You know, our goal is to create the world's top paid on results consulting firm. And uh, we got a long way to go, but that's the objective and the plan Speaker 0 00:04:37 On rich. Yeah. Um, how did you and I meet, Speaker 1 00:04:41 I'm assuming you probably clicked one of our ads <laugh> and probably ended up in our world. Right? I think you're probably scrolling through feed and saw, you know, this little brown guy and then went through Speaker 0 00:04:50 <laugh> hundred percent. I'd tell exactly where I was. I was in a little town called Tuuk here in Melbourne and down the coast, I every now and then I try and do this couple of times a year where I get away on like a little retreat, just myself. I go away to Airbnb for a few days and take my guitar and, uh, do some work and write and think and strategize. And it was on that trip last December. I know because I'd just, I'd literally driven past the car dealership on the way down there and place an order for my new car, which I was very excited about. And I went down there and uh, I was scrolling through the feed and I was like, I really need to get myself out of marketing and get some leverage in this business. And there you were promising at 10 times guaranteed to ROI. Speaker 0 00:05:32 And I'm like, well, holy shit, uh, I'm just gonna click through and have a look at this guy's funnel. And before I knew it, I was on your calendar and we had a call that week and I think we hired you like straight off the bat. We're like, yep. All right, let's go. Um, and you've been with us for over six months now. Yeah. Um, so I wanna talk a little bit about, uh, different channels and client acquisition methods, but also I wanna pitch this at the audience here. So I wanna be really conscious of the fact that our audience are agencies or freelancers, and most of them will be tuning into something like this and going, wow. You know, I just kind of get referrals and I do word of mouth and I do good work. And I put my name in the footer of websites and then people refer me, which is fine until it's not right. So what's the problem with just working off referrals and word of mouth? Speaker 1 00:06:19 I think for me, the biggest problem with that is it's not like a, a machine in your business that you can pull to generate more leads and more clients, right? Like some months you might have a really good month cuz you got more referrals, right. From just like your current client base. But then next month you don't necessarily know where that next client's coming from. Right? You don't have that predictable repeatable way to generate clients like any client based business to grow and get more clients is really simple. You need more appointments, right? And then you need a way to convert those appointments into calls, right? If your agency's not growing at the way that you want, it's because you're not getting enough appointments or you're getting appointments and you're not turning those appointments into sales. Uh, for most people watching this video, it's likely the first camp, you're not getting enough appointments on your calendar. Right. You know? Right. So that, that's probably the biggest problem that I have with it is you can't just like, if you wanna scale your company to a certain revenue mark, you can't just put your foot on the gas pedal because you can't just summon, you know, 20 referrals out of nowhere. <laugh>, you know, that's, that's like, that's the big thing. Speaker 0 00:07:13 Yeah, exactly. Uh, quick shout at Joel Warren, who is in Mavericks club, he's in the comments here watching along and also, uh, Joanna shero is in Cincinnati and anonymous. Facebook user is from Kentucky USA, but currently watching in Florida enjoying the beach. Uh, so referrals are probably the best form of lead that you can get because there's lot of trust in the relationship already, right. People already know someone who know you who've worked with you. You've been referred their names on the line. So there's lots of trust there. However, as you say, it's completely unpredictable. Like you literally are at the mercy of other people going, yeah, you are pretty good. I'll refer you. Uh, I know we've referred some business to you, which is good. It's helping our clients out. It's good for you. It's good for our clients, but I don't wake up every morning going, ah, damn. I gotta refer to some clients today. His business needs to, right. That's not my, my concern is how do we get more clients and keep them happy. Right, Speaker 1 00:08:05 Exactly. Um, Speaker 0 00:08:07 So, so if, if referrals and I, I work with agencies who have grown to multiple seven figures and been doing it for 15 years and have never done any active client acquisition, they've just worked on referrals and they are now at the point where they're like, alright, they've kind of hit a ceiling they've plateaued. And they know that the, the way to get through that is to actually actively do some client acquisition. So before we dive into the sexy stuff, which is like ads and funnels, let's talk about, I had a conversation in the Facebook group. Um, I put something in there yesterday about fast Facebook leads. Like I'm putting together a little internal training here about, we know we've been running some Facebook lead ad campaigns. Like what's the fastest way to get someone to put their hand up. And one of the comments was, um, I've tried this in the past and it's never worked because you know, I, I went with the free web or SEO audit and no one, there was no response. So I know why that doesn't work. But like, just from an outsider's point of view, tell me why offering a free web or SEO audit probably wouldn't work if you are doesn't the channel, doesn't matter. Doesn't matter whether it's Facebook ads or networking events. If you start a conversation with someone about doing a free web or SEO audit, why is that? Probably just not going to fly. Speaker 1 00:09:22 I think the main thing is it's just not a sexy offer. Right. It's just like it's being around forever. It's kind of like in real estate they have like the free home audit, right? Like it's just, it's just not a sexy, appealing offer to people. Right. When they see like a free SEO game plan or something like that, like they immediately know they're just gonna get on some call. That's like a strategy session. Right. <laugh> and then they're just gonna be like, you know, turned into, turned into a sale and there's no real, like, I think it's just an outdated offer. Right? It's just not something that people find very appealing and unique right now. Like there's a million people doing it. And I think now with the landscape, it's more competitive than ever that you need to be able to stand out and have something that's unique to you. That's not out there in the marketplace. So I think that's really the big ones. Just not, not that appealing. It's not that sexy. Speaker 0 00:10:02 Mm. Uh, I worked with accountants years ago and uh, there was, and so accountants to a similar thing, right? Accountants do. Yeah. So, and the accountant, the accountants model is if you find a good accountant who has good bedside manners and is good with people and presents quite well and is quite not, not, they don't even have to be charismatic or charming. They just have to be able to have a commun, you know, communicate and have a good conversation with a business owner. If you put a client in front of them in the office or on zoom, 80% of the time they'll convert. Right. Because yeah, accountants like this recession proof business, everyone needs an accountant. And so their whole model is you just put people in front of me, I'll talk to them and I'll convert them because I'll show them how I can make them more money by either saving them money or helping them increase revenue or profit margins. Speaker 0 00:10:46 Yeah. And everyone wants that. So accountants convert pretty high. The problem is they just don't get enough calls. They don't, they don't get enough appointments. And one accountant, I was working with offered this free business audit. Right. I'm like, dude, I don't know. But my gut tells me I don't want a business audit cuz I know I got shit. I need to fix, I don't need someone smarter than me telling me I need to fix my stuff. Cause that's just gonna make me feel even more stupid than I already do. Right. Yeah. And he's like, alright, well we'll call it a business health check. I'm like same thing, man. Like I know that I've got a problem in my kidneys cuz I'm in a lot of pain. I don't need to go to a specialist to tell me you got a problem in your kidneys. Speaker 0 00:11:27 I know like I just need it fixed. I need the pain to go away. So we just repositioned it as a profit roadmap. It's like or profit pathway. We called it, we called it a profit pathway. Nothing changed except the name on the team. We're like you come and have a chat with us. We'll show you the pathway to increase profit your business. Right. Yeah. That's all that changed. The guy blew up all of a sudden he's got people sitting in front of him, 24 hours a day. Yeah. And he's just like shooting fish in a barrel. He didn't change anything that he actually did in the business. We just changed the name on the tin, right? Yep. Because essentially that's what a business health check or a business audit gives the business owner is a pathway to more profit. So I'm curious in like a web or let's talk about a website, I'm curious about a website. Speaker 0 00:12:12 Uh, if we offer a website audit to someone like what, what, how what's a, what's a sexier way that we can, I'm just, we're just kind of brainstorming here. We're just kinda, by the way, T doesn't know I'm gonna do this. We're just, this is jazz now ladies and gentlemen, right. We're just improvising on the spot. If, if we are going to do like a web audit and then maybe a redesign and a redevelopment and maybe some conversion around optimization and drive some traffic to a website. And the first thing we need to do is a web audit. How can we reposition something like a web audit to make it more appealing to the business owner? Speaker 1 00:12:42 Yeah, for sure. So what I've found with specifically paid traffic, right? Like in order to get B2B sales, there's really, you know, there's two things that make a B2B sale. One is like, like Troy said, when, if someone's in the, in the market already looking for accounting services, they know like they're already looking for that solution. Your job is just to have the best offer to just to solve that. Right. So the very first thing I like to do with the, like, if I'm selling any kind of services, like how can I have a really strong guarantee or rapper around that or a really cool name. That's like the very first thing that I'm kinda looking for there. And then the second thing that you need to be able to sell B2B sales apart from like a strong promise or a bet is you need social proof. Speaker 1 00:13:18 Right? You need, you need cause the very first thing, when you have like a strong bet strong guarantee, whatever it is, the first thing that's in someone's mind is yeah. But prove it. Right. Let's see it. Right. So I think you need those two key elements right off the bat. Like if you can dial in those two things, like if I'm selling accounting services, like if I, cuz I know if someone's getting accounting services, the thing they want is they wanna save money on their taxes. Right. They want less of a tax bill. Right. If you're in the market for, and I had an ad, that's just like, I guarantee I'll save you X amount, right on your tax bill. Right. And like comment to our free profit pathway and we'll show you how to do that. And then I just backed up with a ton of case studies and results. So you knew I was legit. Like you you're gonna book a call <laugh> you're gonna book a call. That's all it takes for B2B sales. Like a strong, better promise that you deliver on the outcome and ton social to back. It that's probably how Speaker 0 00:14:04 So I ticked on your ad. I didn't even have to opt in. Right. You're just like you, you just, like you said some stuff, it was in that same room that we're looking at right now. Just like, Hey 10 X, guaranteed ROI. Every dollar you spend with you make 10 back guaranteed. Otherwise, you know, pay, just go check out the page and I'll, I'll prove it. Right. Let me back it up. So I'm like fine. I expected to have to opt in. I went, clicked and landed on the page. There's no opt in. I'm like, okay, fair enough. And uh, uh, then there's a little video where you explain how it works. And then underneath there was just like 8 million testimonials of like companies that you'd work with. And a couple of them I recognized, right. I recognized Rudy. There were a couple of others I didn't recognize, but I Googled them and I'm like, all right, that looks legit. Speaker 0 00:14:41 I don't reckon this guy can fake that. I'm pretty sure this guy's not faking this. Right. Um, and so all I'm gonna do is book a call. I'm not offering the, I'm not giving the guy any money right now. I'm just gonna book a call to learn more. Okay. But it was the, it was the guarantee I have nothing to lose. And it was the social proof. They were the two elements that got me to book a call because I mean, yeah, here's thing about booking a call, right? When you are booking a call, you're not asking someone to invest money, but you're asking them to invest their time and they do not want their time wasted. So the, the guarantee and the social proof are the two really strong key elements. They get them to book the call. And then on the call, your job is to convert them into it's to close them into a client. Right. Because, Speaker 1 00:15:24 Cause I think at this point, people know when they get on call, they're gonna be sold something. It's not like this big surprise when they get on, you know, they, they understand that. I think right now, if like, if I look at a lot of our, you know, service based brands that are crushing it, they follow that, that pathway, you know, like they can think of a really strong, unique offer. That's like has a strong guarantee or name around it. That's like very benefit driven. And then there's a ton of case studies to back it up. Like if you have that, like you will, there's no way you don't get applications and calls. Like you just need those two elements. Because like I was going back to that accounting example, it's you already know you need an account. You already know you wanna save money. Right. It's just like, who can demonstrate that the best. And then like at a glance, like, cuz that's, that's what they're doing. They're just doing like a BS check in their head. Like can this guy actually deliver? And if they a bunch of case studies, they're just like, all right, I'm just gonna book a call and see whatever the hell this guy has to do. Right. Once you get them on the call, it's easy. Speaker 0 00:16:10 That's right. And also if you've got enough social proof, once they're on the call, it doesn't feel like a job interview. Right? Yeah. Because the social proof has kind of built the trust. And so you are like, you don't, you don't then have to prove yourself on the call because your social proof has done that for you. Anonymous Facebook user says, by the way, if you're watching this, click the link near this video and give streamy permission for us to know your name and your face so we can bring you up on the screen and we know who you are. Otherwise I'm gonna call you anonymous Facebook user. Uh, how do you get social proof when you're just starting out? How did you do it? Speaker 1 00:16:43 Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a great question. I actually spent almost two years getting social proof like directly. So what I did, I think there's like, if you're just starting out, there's probably not a higher leverage activity than getting case studies and testimonies from your target market that are killer <laugh>. Um, cause they're just gonna pay you off in dividends more than you know right now. Um, so what I actually did is I I'm off, I offered to work for free for brands and companies. Right? Like it's really interesting. There's a lot of people who are like really against working for free. Um, but it's interesting that what, like the higher up you go, like when I work with like seven, eight figure brands, like they're, they're working for free all the time with potential accounts that they want just to get their foot in the door because business just a relationship game. Speaker 1 00:17:20 Right? Like if they like you, they're probably gonna pay, pay you. Um, I think that's just like a, a piece of advice that I think people don't know. Like they're usually really like, not against some like in the beginning I'm talking just in the beginning a lot of times. Right? Sure. Um, to get testimonials, I would work for free. Right. I would try to get some sort of result or a case study right away. Right. Because if you're starting out, your chances are, you're not very good at what you do. Right. Like, cause you're, you're starting out. You can't be that good. Right. So like you have to earn the right. So the best way to do that, get your foot in the door. Right. Just work for free for someone try to deliver the result for them gain that, that, uh, that base. Right. Because once you have that base and you understand how to gen results in your niche, like it just compounds so quickly. Right. So I think I had to spend like two, three years working for free taking on accounts, understanding businesses as a whole. And then when I could too, that like the case studies that I have, like they pay us every single day in dividends. Yep. So that's, that's, that's what I would do. Speaker 0 00:18:09 There's a couple of leverage. There's a couple of options here too. You can, when I, we used to do this. When I had an agency, we used to do a pro bono project once a year for a local charity or a school or whatever. Right. Or a cause that we believed in. But what we would do is we would use the project to get lots of press for the charity or the organization. But then we would be mentioned in the press as their digital partner. Right. So that was like free advertising. We always made sure we got a case study at a video testimonial from those clients that we work with. And the other way you can position work for free is you can say, Hey, this is gonna cost you anything to begin with. I'm gonna work for free until we get this. And then once we reach this, you pay me X. So you have nothing to lose. Right. Kind of similar to performance base. But you just start the conversation by saying, Hey, I'm gonna work for free until we get this. And then once we get this, you pay me this is that a fair deal? Yeah, yeah, Speaker 1 00:18:58 Yeah, exactly. And if you're just starting out too, it's not like you need hundreds of testimonials. Like you need like three to five, right. <laugh> even three, even three that are pretty good. Cause I'm always looking at in the marketing lens, right? Like if you, like I said, like the moment you make a bold claim or a bold promise, the very first, like you, the very first thing someone said is like, all right, prove it. I need to make sure this is real. Right. So you need, I just, I just think you need social proof right now. If you're gonna start running ads, right. Or a marketing channel, that's not organic and referral based, like you just need that element. And like there's no higher ROI than getting like the first three. Like I'm always looking at ways to get more case studies, more social proof. Like you can't have enough. Speaker 0 00:19:33 Yeah. So how do, how did you, how do what's your process for figuring out the message to put in front of people to yeah. Based on like how, how do you figure out what they want and then craft a message to put that in front of them to get their attention. Because the Internet's a noisy marketplace. Let's like running ads is super competitive. Right? How do you cut through? Speaker 1 00:19:55 Yeah, that's a good question. Right? It's like, it is more competitive than ever. I, there is no like one sexy answer towards that. Like it took me almost like a year before I cracked <laugh> cracked cold traffic. Right. So I had to test a lot of stuff, but now like if I was going back, like what I would do if I was starting from scratch is like, I would try to create an offer that I'm like, that is the strongest and then has the least amount of resistance. Right? Meaning like if I can create an offer that has a strong guarantee, that they're gonna be satisfied with the service and then lower the barrier of entry for them to start. That's what I'm looking like. If I can create a guarantee, an ROI based guarantee and back it up with a lot of social proof, that's what I would do. Speaker 1 00:20:30 Like looking back, like I used to run like certain campaigns that were just like for B2B sales specifically, I used to try like webinar funnels. And I used to try, um, all these different types of funnels like that were just, you know, webinars, all that type of stuff. What I found that worked way better is literally just strong promise shit, ton of social proof book, a call <laugh> right. That is, that's what I found works the best. So in terms of just messaging, I'm always trying to figure out what is like, there's an outcome that your market wants, whether it's more customers, more leads, more sales, more conversions on their site. First thing I wanna figure out what that outcome is. Then the second thing I wanna figure out is how can I create a strong guarantee around delivering that outcome? Right. I guarantee or a promise, like a bet. Speaker 1 00:21:06 And then what I want to do is just back it up with a ton of social proof on. And like, if I have those three elements, I will book calls. Like mm-hmm <affirmative> I will get leads. I will get attention. That's what I'm, that's what I'm doing. Um, and a lot of startup brands that we're taking too, who are more like, you know, newer service based brands. Like a lot of times before they start running ads, like I'm helping them like, Hey, we need social proof, right? Like we need all three of these elements. Like we need to figure out the markets and desire. We need to create a strong offer. That's like a bet that promises that we can like get them closer to that. And we need social proof to back it up. If you have those three elements, like that's what you need. Speaker 0 00:21:36 So how this is, this is, I, I mean, you know, you and I deep in this world right now, we talk about this stuff most days and our business and how we craft offers and how we make it unique. So the whole like, you know, follow me to the end of the rainbow and we'll discover the pot of gold and you'll have millions of dollars in your bank account and you'll never have to work again. And you'll have a whole team of robots and offshore VAs doing all of your work for you. And you can just go sit on the beach and sit peanut coladas. And by the way, if it doesn't work, I'll give you a hundred times your money back. Yeah. Right. That offer is kind of, that's the ultimate offer. Right. And it's, it's, it's becoming saturated already. And also, so how do you find something unique around that? And everyone's just gonna be offering the same thing. Right? I mean, I, I look at our competitors. I'm like, wow, we all look the same. Right. <laugh> Speaker 1 00:22:22 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:22:24 We all sound the same. We're all off from the same shit. How, what is the, what is the key for, and I wanna, I wanna talk, I'm kind of gonna tee you up here to talk about like micro front end offers, right? The front end offer, which you spoke about at makin, how do you, how what's the process for finding out what the client, what the market wants? You just get on a call and ask them point blank. Like, cuz the problem I have with this is like, most people don't know what they want. You ask people what they want. Most people don't know what they want. They just tell you what they think they want or what they think they're supposed to say. Speaker 1 00:22:59 Yeah. I think what it comes. Yeah. Two things again on it. Right. So I think the good thing in B2B sales and if you're selling services for other businesses, the thing that they primarily all want is more money, right? Like there's, that's what they want. They want more leads. They want more sales. Right. So that's the first thing, like that's the outcome that they want now, how you make it unique is you need a unique vehicle to get them that outcome. Right? Like when I went fractional chief marketing officer, there's not a whole lot of fractional chief marketing officers out there that promise more revenue and that advertise. Right. So it's like understanding the outcome and then having your unique spin to it. Right? Like if that's what, that's what you kind of need to do and you need to figure out how you can position, right. Speaker 1 00:23:35 Your offer in the marketplace. That's that's different. That's like only to you, like if like what Troy said with like the profit audit, right. That it's like, that's only to that, that, that tax owner. Right. I mean that, that tax company, they can't find that offer anywhere else. Right. So that's what it comes down to is like it's kind of straightforward. At least for agency owners is like, if you're selling websites, if you're selling SEO, it doesn't matter. All of them want more money. Then the next job you have to go one layer deeper and then figure out how can I spend my offer in my service is a new opportunity. Something that's new that they haven't heard of. That's unique to me because now you're not competing in like a hundred different SEO people. You're like, it's just, it's just me. I'm the only one with it. Speaker 0 00:24:08 Yeah. So lemme give you a very practical example of that. I've gone a couple of a couple of conferences ago, or I wanna say like middle of last year we had a speaker from search words, come in. I can't remember his name. Someone will remind me. And he talked about everyone's either offering SEO or seom right. Everyone's offering like paid ads or SEO. What he does is he talks, he offers his clients a search solution, which is a combination of ads now to get fast results and SEO for the long game because there's problems with both right. Ads now is great, but it's like crack cocaine. It's gonna wear off at some point and you're gonna go hungry. Yeah. SEO is the long game it's sustainable, but it's gonna take time. The balance of both of them is what he calls a search solution. So he doesn't talk about SEO or ads in any of his marketing or any of his client calls. Like, listen, if you just want SEO, go see an SEO agency. If you want ads, Kelsey, an ad agency, if you want a holistic search solution, you're in the right place. And like he's not changing anything that he's doing in the business. He's literally just saying different words out of his mouth. That's the only thing that's Speaker 1 00:25:12 Changing. That's what it comes down to. Right. It's like same thing we did with another SEO client. It's like, that's how he framed it is instead of saying, cause if you say SEO, everyone does it. Like what we did onto the ads, you've said a hidden traffic source that you can leverage to start generating leads. Right? Like we was, that was it. It's like, Hey, we're leveraging this hidden traffic source right now to help XYZ clients get X result. Right. Cause it gets their attention. Like what the hell is this? What is this hidden? That's, that's how you have to frame it. Speaker 0 00:25:37 Hidden traffic source. What is that hidden traffic source. Speaker 1 00:25:40 <laugh> yeah, totally. It makes, it makes them click. It makes them click. Like you don't need to change your deliverable. Right? Like you don't need to change your deliverable in terms of like, that's how you're delivering the product. You just need a different name or container around that. That's it correct? Speaker 0 00:25:51 That's right. I, I saw a ad once and I kind of looked at it and I, and I tried to reverse engineer it and I realized the guy was selling GMB optimizations on the back end. But he was talking about getting more traffic from kind of similar, like a hidden traffic source to get more traffic from Google without spending more money on ads. And I'm like, what's he doing? And I kind of read the copy and I'm like, I guarantee he's selling GMB optimizations. He never mentioned Google my business on his sales page. Speaker 1 00:26:15 Yeah. Like that clever Speaker 0 00:26:17 It's intriguing. Speaker 1 00:26:18 Yeah. Even if go ahead. Speaker 0 00:26:21 I was gonna say Dan Kennedy talks about the fact that like we're in the, we're in the secret business, we're in the business of selling secrets. Right. Because everyone wants to know where the secret pot of gold is. And the reality is there are no freaking secrets man there Speaker 1 00:26:33 On this secret. Yeah. It's all common sense. Right? It's like everyone knows the solution solution towards it, but that's, that's so key. Right? It's like the be we always talk about this every single time is like as a business owner, the better you are at creating unique hooks and unique ways to position your offer in the marketplace, the more money you're gonna make. Right? Like it's, it's just one of those fundamental skill that you're gonna have to learn. If you wanna start running paid ads or a traffic source where you get your calendar filled up with appointments coming to you, you need to get good at that skillset. Speaker 0 00:26:59 Where did you, I know you've kind of been through a similar school that I have in terms of direct response copy and stuff. But how did you discover this stuff? Like, cause like, cuz what are you like? You're like 16 years old now. Is that, is that, is that I'm sorry. Speaker 1 00:27:11 23, 23 man. Speaker 0 00:27:13 Three Speaker 1 00:27:13 Years old. Speaker 0 00:27:14 Jesus man, when I was 23, like, um, we've had, we've had this conversation before I was 23. I can't even remember what I was doing. I was 23, but I was known when you was organized as you are. Um, how did you discover this direct response kind of digital marketing world? Where were you in your life? Where you went, Hey, this is what I wanna do. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:27:30 Yeah. I mean, I got into it kind of early where it's uh, you know, I dropped out of college. I wanted to get into, uh, physiotherapy or chiropractic was my big goal, but I was like really stupid in school. Like I didn't get any of the grades <laugh> so I, I dropped out of that early. And then, uh, from there, like when you don't have any degrees, there's not a lot of stuff that you can do. Right. So like naturally I'm scrolling through Facebook and I, and I see like drop shipping ads. Right. I see like how to become a high ticket, closer, all that, you know that the classic bus business opportunity stuff. Right. And then from there I'm like interesting. Like I, I started learning about drop shipping. I started learning about sales. Right. And that's when I started learning about that stuff. Speaker 1 00:28:01 And then I took, um, I got his drop shipping first. Right. And then with drop shipping, that's when I started learning like Facebook ads. Right. Cause in order to like generate like sales, I had to learn Facebook ads. And that's when I like really start to learn like, holy crap, this is like this whole other world. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> where, like I remember when I started making my first sales on my drop shipping store. Right. I was like, what the hell? This is crazy. Like I can get like, people don't know my brand. Like I can just run these ads and start making sales. And then, you know, I started devouring, every single book out there, just a classic direct response books. I started taking mini courses. I took the Sandor certification, but that was like two, three years after. Um, that was great. Um, but I took that like, but where I learned a lot of my stuff, I think you can get, like, anyone can get a pretty good base knowledge of marketing, like just reading the courses and stuff like that. Speaker 1 00:28:41 But where I got, I think I learned most of my skills is when I started actually like what I said in the first part of this, uh, podcast is when I started working for free for brands. Right. Yeah. Is like, cuz everything was theory at that point. And now I was like, all right, now I gotta make it work. Right. Yep. And then when I started working for free for brands, I only got compensated on the additional sales I brought in. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so when you do that, you learn pretty good. What works and what doesn't right. You start to under yeah. You start to understand like, Hey, this works do more of that. This doesn't work. Don't do that. Right. And you start to understand like which clients are really easy win clients, which clients aren't easy win clients. Right. Like that's what, that's, what it really came down to is like theory. And then like doing it, like just doing it a lot, like two years of eating shit. Speaker 0 00:29:19 Yeah. Right. And you have to figure it out, especially when you're gambling with other people's money. Right. If you're running ads for clients, you have to figure it out. Otherwise you go hungry and you piss a lot of people off. Um, exactly. What about something that you mentioned there though? Um, the, you, you know, you figured out which clients are an easy win and which ones aren't when I, when we applied to work with you and we did, we applied to work with you. Yeah. We applied on a call with you. Well, I had to answer about 8 million questions in your applicant. Well, it wasn't that many, but it was quite a few detailed question. And then when we got on a call, you were like, alright, take the kimono off and tell me everything that's going on in the business. Right. And you were like really dug into the details. Speaker 0 00:29:55 A lot of people, I, I see a lot of agencies trying to hit a home, run with a client. Who's never gonna be able to hit a home run. Right? Yeah. You stack the odds in your favor. At least that's what it looks like from my side of the fence is you stack the odds in your favor by saying we're only gonna work with clients who meet this criteria. I learned this from Christian son and Frank KRN years ago. I was like, I only work with the clients where, you know, you can pull a few levers and get them a quick win because then they'll think you're a magician and they'll basically do whatever you tell them to don't work with startups with no money and no, no, no traffic and no email list because they're too hard. Like it's too hard to get them a quick win. So how do you figure out what your criteria is? And then the second part of the question is what do you do with those people who don't fit the criteria to work with you? Speaker 1 00:30:44 Yeah, definitely. So I think, especially when you run an offer like mine where it's like purely performance based and like just around generating revenue, like for me, like what I did is I just knew the criteria that made an easy win client. So for me, what I would like for a quick win, I knew I needed an email list that was under leveraged or that wasn't leveraged fully, you know, they had to have, you know, they had to be generating revenue already. Like for that offer. I wanted to make sure they're making at least half a million plus in revenue. Right. And like when I was working for free for clients, like that's what I knew. I was like, man, if they had an under leveraged asset, they had some momentum already. It wasn't hard for us to make the money. Right. So like that, that was that process there is when it came for criteria it's I mean, one thing I did is I look at all the clients that we worked with historically. Speaker 1 00:31:24 Right. And like what were the 20% of clients that one paid us the most amount of money and the ones that were the happiest. Right. And then really quickly when you actually analyzed that data, you're gonna find, okay, they had this criteria like both with demographics, you know, like here's, here's how much income they were making. Here's you know, the qualities that they had and then both with psychographics as well. And once you know that, like you'll, you'll find like here are the 20% of clients that like make 80% of your revenue. Let's only focus on these guys. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so that was like, that was like that process. That's what we did. And then to answer your second question of like, what do you guys, what do you do with the guys who don't qualify for that offer? You know, we're finding that right now as well. Speaker 1 00:31:57 Cause with our agency, like I mentioned, we get like three, 400 applications every single month. Right. And like, you know, 70% of those guys don't qualify. Right. Actually close 80. Right. So what we have to do with those guys is we had to think of like a downsell or coaching offer for those guys where you just have to be very upfront with them that like, Hey, this is a little bit of a different offer. It's more reliant on you. You have to do some of the work, but the same processes, we're gonna give you a proven to work. We're doing it for seven eight for your brands. It's just more dependent on your ability to implement these things. So for the guys, if you are gonna take clients that you're not as certain on or where there's a little bit of a, you know, a gap, you just have to set expectations properly with them. That's what I found. Then you can still sell those guys just fine. You just have to set expectations properly. Like you can't tell those guys you're gonna be a millionaire overnight. Speaker 0 00:32:36 You know what hormo, what Alex hormo did. Was he basically just over their business back in the day, he was like, yeah, Hey, like get outta the way. Let me run your business for month. And it will be completely business, but you just need to piss off for a month. And lemme do my thing and like moved into the gym. And like, I've heard stories about him sleeping on the floor of the gym, where he was working for a month because he'd wanna pay for a hotel room and he would just take over their business for a month. And because a lot of the time, if you've got the chops and you know what you're doing, and you've got your, your, your resources and your team and your processes together, and you can actually get results for the clients. A lot of the time that you won't get results is because the client is getting in the way, right. Speaker 0 00:33:10 They're not giving you the content. They're not shooting the bloody video. They're not answering the questions. They're not responding to your requests. And a lot of the time that, you know, everyone thinks, oh, this is because they're busy. I actually think it's because they're sabotaging their own success, which is a whole other conversation. Uh, and it's not our job to play therapist. It's our job to say, Hey, especially if you're performance based, it's like, you are getting in the way of me getting paid. I wanna get results so that I can get paid. So yeah. How do you, how do you deal with that situation where like you start off with a client and then you realize after a couple of weeks, this client's just numbed in. They're just not gonna give me what I need to actually get results. Do you just fire them? Or how do you coach them through that? Speaker 1 00:33:50 I think it depends. Right. There's levels to it. Right? Like if it's someone who's just a blatant dickhead, like you have no tolerance for that. Like, you're just, Hey, sorry man. Like, I, I fucking messed up. You should have never worked here. Like I should have never what you in. Right. <laugh> so for those guys, you can let them go like right away. Yeah. Right. For the people where it's just like, they're not implementing certain things. Like it's just client management 1 0 1. Right. So if I notice for a few weeks things aren't getting implemented, it's moving slowly. I'll just schedule a call with them and just reset expectations. Right. And let them know like, Hey, here's the objective that we set when we started working together. Here's what we're doing on our end. But we're bottleneck because we're not getting these things in time. Like, is this something you still wanna achieve? Speaker 1 00:34:24 Because we're gonna give you everything you need. But like, we're not, we're like bottleneck by this one thing. Right. And just reset expectations with them. And a lot of times, like, you'll, you'll find out that either they weren't getting enough context from you, you weren't giving them enough. Or they're like, no shit, man. Like, I'm just really busy right now. Like, like, can we work something? And then you just have to find like a compromise for those people. But like, I just like to reset expectations at a lot, like 90% of the time, if you reset expectations, retie it back to the goal that they want. Like, they're like, okay dude, I understand I messed up. I'll I'll do it. And they're, they're normal. Speaker 0 00:34:53 I find this really interesting because, and again, I don't mean to, uh, yeah, you are fairly new and fairly young in this world. Right. I don't mean to be an ageist here, but like I'm a dinosaur and it took me years to get the confidence, to have that conversation with clients. And I can tell you a lot of people watching this live stream or listen to this podcast are sitting here going how, like, they just feel like the idea of having that conversation with a client makes them throw up. It makes them so anxious and so nervous because mm-hmm <affirmative>, I don't know why, like, because I think, because we feel like the client is the prize because they have the money and yeah, the reality is we are the prize because we can actually deliver results. Right. So, yeah. Has this, is this just has, does this come naturally to you? Or is this something that you've had to learn over the years, this like how to be, cuz you are, you are, what I really like about you is you are really assertive, but super polite. Like I know exactly where I stand. I know exactly what the expectations are, but you're super awesome to work with and super friendly. And I think that's a, I think that's a real skill in itself, so yes. Does that just come naturally dear? Or is there something you've had to kind of hone over time? Speaker 1 00:35:55 I think it's, you know, obviously there's part of it where you have to learn it, you know, there's lessons where, you know, probably early on where I let clients go, because like when I could have totally saved it by not having conversation. So part of it is actually learning that process. Um, but I think, you know, communication is a little bit, I guess maybe a little bit more natural to me than others might be a little bit more like it just not doesn't come as easy for them. But I think the big part is just coming with that mindset that like, like they want the outcome or else they wouldn't be working with you. You know what I mean? It's like a disservice, if you don't bring it up. Right. Like cuz if you don't bring it, cause here's the way, here's the way I think about it. Speaker 1 00:36:26 It's like, if you don't bring it up with them, they're just gonna go. They're probably gonna fire you anyways. You know what I mean? Like if, if they're not implementing anything and they're not getting results, like you think they're just gonna stick forever and just like get billed every single like, no, like you have to have that conversation with them. It's just part of the process. And I think the key to that is just having that conversation with them and just in like a really friendly way with them. Right. <laugh> like, it's not, it doesn't need to be something that like gives you anxiety. Right. It's just like, they're aware of it. It's like, they're not implementing anything. They know they're dropping the ball. It's not like deep down inside. They're like, I'm doing everything. Like they know like clients know when they're not <laugh> they're not delivering on there and you just need to bring it up and remind them and say like, Hey, do you still want this goal? Is this outcome still important to you? And once you get their buy, like they're good. Speaker 0 00:37:06 Yeah. I had a, Speaker 1 00:37:07 Then you let them go. Speaker 0 00:37:09 I had a client hire me, uh, 15 years ago. Speaker 1 00:37:12 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:37:13 I'm not kidding. And paid a deposit for a website for a, uh, dog yoga company that she was starting. She's basically like driving around, doing yoga for dogs who were anxious. And so I went and had a meeting with her at a cafe and you know, did the whole thing back when I didn't know what I was doing. And uh, you know, started to get some of her content. She paid the deposit, I started building the website and she dis so fucking pied off the face of the planet 15. Now she turned up about five years later and was like, oh, Hey, um, you know that website, we started five years ago. I'd like to finish it. I'm like, holy shit, you are back. I'm gonna have to rebuild it from scratch. Cause it doesn't exist anymore, but okay, sure. Why not? I'll I'll honor my commitment and we'll finish it up. And um, a week later she disappeared again. And to this day I have not heard from her 15 years that open loop, that project is still sitting there somewhere. It's not actually it's dead if she'd ever, ever turned up and she never asked for her money back, it was weird. Super weird. Anyway, Speaker 1 00:38:12 That's, that's the exception, right? Like that's the exact like, at least in my, like, what I've found is like, if you don't, if you don't address it with the client and you know, the client's not progressing getting results, like you're, you're on the chopping block, you know what I mean? Like they're, they're not, you have to like basically let them know like reset expectations, like the sooner, the better. Speaker 0 00:38:28 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so I wanna talk about micro offers or like front end offers, right? Instead of we spoke about this at ma instead of, instead of having a conversation with someone about rebuilding their entire website, what just like give us, and this is kind of how I came into your world. Right? You were like, Hey, we can just do this in the next hundred days. And then if that works, we can have a conversation about working together long term. Yeah. So what, how, how do, what, what are some of the things that what's kind of your thought process behind? Cause like what I, what we are doing at the moment is we are helping agencies understand how to use paid discovery, not calling a paid discovery, but calling it something like a profit pathway or a digital roadmap or something like that, something sexier and selling a small, like a low ticket product to build massive trust over deliver, and then get them to ascend into a larger ticket, larger ticket project. So how do you kind of figure out, all right, I'm an eCommerce brand. I come into your world, you are like, you know what, we can just do this in the next 90 days and blow these guys away. And then there's a long term relationship there rather than trying to take everything over at once. Speaker 1 00:39:38 Yeah. I think you just, you just have to find like a lot of times when you work with clients, you just have to go back and find what is value and what is it value? Like what do your clients find really, really helpful and valuable and what don't they you're gonna find. Sometimes the things that they find really valuable are the ones that take you the least amount of time, because how much time you put into something and how much value the client gets is like two completely separate things, right? <laugh> like, even if you put a lot of time into it, like if it, like, they might not find it that valuable. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so first thing I would do is just do an account of like, okay, what's everything I'm doing for client and what do they find valuable? What is not right. Speaker 1 00:40:08 Then the next thing I wanna do is like, is there like, can I find like that one or two things? Like what are one or two big dominoes that I can do to just get someone a quick win or gain their trust, right. Just to get them in the door. Right. So maybe it's like running, like maybe it's running like a quick win email campaign for them. If I'm running email marketing, right. If it's Facebook ad services, maybe it might be like creating them one ad you know, like one little ad, right. If you know, Rudy, for example, like his whole front end offer is like a done for you ad campaign for 97 bucks, right? Yeah. Like it's just a crazy offer right. Toward that. Like, it might be just one thing that you do just to deliver that trust. Right. Um, that's what I would be doing is just figuring out, like, what are your clients actually enjoy? Speaker 1 00:40:43 What can you get results with? Like really fast for them? Or like something, it doesn't need to be like an ROI based result. Cuz if you're like a web developer or something like that, there might be something that you can do that you can create to them. That's visual that they see a lot of value in, right. That you can create to them really quickly. It can even be like a project brief. Um, but that's what I would be doing is like figuring out like just what are those one, two things that I could do just to get their foot in the door that I can like over deliver on. And then at that point, like you can sell them, you can sell them the world. Right. Just give them that one thing. Right. And then help sell them the whole package. Mm-hmm Speaker 0 00:41:11 <affirmative> uh, and usually, so this is where I think I have this conversation all the time with really experienced agency owners. Who've been doing it a long time. Yeah. And they still come back to you. They get stuck and I'm this is for everyone listening and watching. Right. They get stuck going. Well, the thing they need is they need a new website. I'm like, okay, they don't need a new website. Right. Like, I'll give you an example from the gardening world. Right. So I need my lawns mode. That's what I need. I need my lawn. That's all I want. I just want my lawns mode. So I call my mate who owns a gardening business. I'm like, dude, can you send one of your boys? He's like one of my groomsman. He's one of my best mates. Yeah. Can you spend money of your boys around every like two or three weeks and mow the lawns? Speaker 0 00:41:54 Cause I don't wanna mow the lawn. I don't even have a lawn mower. Yeah. Right. I don't wanna spend my weekends mowing the lawns. When my kids are a bit older, maybe I'm gonna spend the weekend in the garden, teaching them how to do gardening stuff and that's gonna be fun. But right now I wanna get outta the city on the weekend and spend time with my family. I want someone else to come and mow the lawns. So all I need and all I think I want is just come mow the lawns right now. If he turned up and he went, well now listen here, man. You've gotta re landscape this backyard and we've gotta do this down the side of the house. And we've gotta build a retaining wall out the front here. And it's gonna cost you $15,000 and take three months. I'm like, dude, you're an idiot. Speaker 0 00:42:24 Just mow the fricking lawns. All I want you to do is mow the lawns. Now, if he comes and mows the lawns for two or three times, so maybe he's been working with me for six weeks and he mowed the lawns two or three times. And then he says to me, Hey, by the way, buddy, when, uh, when John was there the other day, he noticed this thing down the back, uh, yard that you got a bit of a problem down there with some mosquitoes and that vine, I think we need to kind of get rid of that Von. That's a true story, by the way, I think we need to get rid of that vine so your kids can play in the playground and not be eaten by mosquitoes. How does that sound? I'll be like, holy shit, man. Thank you so much for spotting that can you fix it for me? Speaker 0 00:42:56 And by the way, your front fence is about to fall over. The only thing holding that front fence up is a hedge. Do you want me to fix that? Thank you for spotting that, can you please fix that too? Right? Because what he's done is he's delivered on what I needed and now I trust him enough to fix other problems. Right? And the problem I think most agency owners have is we come in and go. Someone says, well, my website's loading in 13 seconds and I'm an eCommerce brand and that's a problem and I'm losing money and we come in and go, great. Let's redesign your logo. Yeah. <laugh> how is that relevant to what I need? So I think it TA it's. I like if you can't do this as a web, as an agency owner, because you are too close to it, I think you should hire someone else to interview your customers and ask them someone independent outside the business, ask them what, if we could fix one thing for you in the next 30 days to help your online business, what would we fix? Speaker 0 00:43:52 What would you have us do? And don't bring your baggage as a web design SEO guy for, for the last 15 years, don't bring that baggage to the conversation. Just let your customer talk about what it is they want and really listen to the language that they're using because nobody wants a new website. Yep. Right. That might be what they need, but it's not what they want. And so we need to start the conversation with something that they actually want, not what they need. I'll give you an example. Uh, I ran some Facebook lead ads over the last couple of weeks as an experiment to lawyers showing them my teleprompter setup. And the headline was if you wanna make eye contact with clients on zoom, read this. And I got, I got like 60 lawyers in a week at less than five bucks a lead. Speaker 0 00:44:44 Right? Yeah. Now, if I was a digital guy, I would have that conversa. I would use that to start a conversation with lawyers about how to make eye contact on zoom. I would give them a free video to teach them how to do it. Walk through exactly how to set it up. Probably stick some affiliate links into the gear that they need to buy. And then I would go, Hey, now that we've solved that problem for you for free. What other problem do you have? Oh, well when I do this and my CRMs not working and my leads and I need more of this and now we can have a conversation about what we can actually fix for them. But I started the conversation with something I knew would appeal to them. Speaker 1 00:45:17 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's huge. That's huge. Cuz if, once you find what that is like, that's like, it's, it's easier said than done obviously to, to find that. But like once we can, once you can find like that, that one thing, right. That like that to, to get their foot in the door, right. That they see a lot of perceived value into that you can build that relationship with like that's the hardest part is building that trust with them. Once you get that trust with them, like they'll give you all the money for their bigger projects. Right. <laugh> so yeah. Completely agree. Speaker 0 00:45:44 Correct. Because, because they trust you and we, and we buy from people we know like and trust and the fastest way to build trust with someone is to what Frank Kern does. Yeah. Show them, you can help them by actually helping them and delivering results in advance. Right. Before you ask for anything. Now the tr the trick is figuring out how to do that in a leveraged way that doesn't send you broke. Right? Yeah. And so I think the fastest way to do that is just to make training super detailed training videos that solve a very specific problem and give it to them. Hey, this is what's, this is what's wrong with you. Google my business listing right now. This is how to go fix it. It's gonna take you seven minutes. Go fix it. Most people are gonna go, I haven't got time to do it. Can you just do it for me? Yeah. And then you've got the video is an asset that you can then use for future content marketing. And it's a conversation starter, Speaker 1 00:46:32 Right? Yeah, definitely. Cuz if you can think of like those mini trainings that Troy was talking about, like you could create really easy funnels where like the first, the first page of the funnel gives him that free training. And then on the next page, that's when you get them onto your call or like, you know, your paid discovery or make the next offer, right. You just need something to like cut through the noise. It needs to be really appealing. It needs to be like a sort of bait, right. That they see. And they're like, oh my God, I need this. It needs to solve. I found the best thing. This needs to solve like an immediate need and give them a relief right away. Um, ideally it needs to be like one thing that they can use to just consume right away to get some immediate benefit from it. As long as they find that thing valuable, like they'll come back to you for more <laugh> you know, they'll they'll book the call. They'll do paid discovery. They'll upsell all that fun stuff. Speaker 0 00:47:10 Yeah, exactly. Uh, Sharon, good enough says, uh, in the comments I love this. It's like going to the ER, you're not going to work on their weight problem when they have a broken arm. Right. That's right. Like someone presents an AR they've got a broken arm, you fix their arm. And then the GP says, oh, by the way, we might just wanna have a look at your weight problem cuz you know, you fall over again and you break your leg, you can end up in a nursing home. So let's actually get the holistic approach going on here. But when they turn up with the broken arm, it's like, we just gotta fix the arm. Cause I'm in immediate pain. Yeah. So your job as a marketer is to figure out the immediate pain that your prospect is in. And the best way to do that is to ask them, get on the phone and just talk to them and ask them right for free. Speaker 0 00:47:45 One of our Mavericks is having a lot of success at the moment doing, uh, basically a pick my brain call, right? So she's offering, Hey, you can get on a call and pick my brain for 15 minutes and I'll tell you everything I know about digital marketing for free on the condition that I can pick your brain about your business and what you need for market research. And she's she did like 32 calls in 30 days and she's like, it's been exhausting, but exhilarating and it completely changed her offer. So now she actually knows what to, what to offer. Um, yeah. How the, the last question here before we let you go, thank you so much for your time here too, brother. I really appreciate it. And by the way, I'm looking forward to hanging out in San Diego when we came. Yeah, Speaker 1 00:48:21 Definitely September, right? Speaker 0 00:48:22 Yeah. That'd be great. Yeah, September. It's gonna be awesome. We're go for those listening. We're going to San Diego in September of course, word camp us is in San Diego on September 8, 9, 10. I think it is. Uh, or no, sorry. 9, 10, 11. And uh, Mav con, which is our conference from our Mavericks club members is on September 12, 13, 14 in San Diego at the beautiful spring hill suites in, at the Marriot in San Diego. Uh, if you are not in Mavericks club and you wanna come, then we have some tickets available to non Mavericks to come and check it out. If you are serious about growing your agency, reach out the [email protected], have a conversation with the team and get the details. Um, which is a nice segue into my final question for you. You O obviously you've been around a lot of mentors and a lot of people who have taught you a lot of things. How do you, uh, what, what's kind of your criteria for choosing what to learn next and who to go study with? Speaker 1 00:49:18 Yeah, I think for me, it's, it's just dependent on, I think one of the things that, you know, is the key, if you want to grow an entrepreneurship is to discern what is the next thing that you need? What is the next immediate need? So for me, what I'm trying to figure out the next mentor, the next person to find it's what is the next thing that I need the most help with at the moment? Right? Like before I used to just consume marketing, marketing courses all the time, but like there's only so much you can get with that. <laugh>, you know, so for me, I'm always trying to figure, okay, what is the bottleneck for me? Is it maybe it's on the sales side that I'm looking for a sales manager. Right, right. Like for, for me, the thing I just invest in was, uh, Alex Charfen stuff for operations. Speaker 1 00:49:48 Right. Cause I knew that was a weak point. Right. I knew that was a weak point for me was, uh, you know, the actual operation side, hiring, recruiting, all that stuff. Right. So that's what I'm more looking for is like, I just try to take an account. Like, what I'll do is if I notice I'm stuck, especially like I haven't had any progress, the very first thing I'm gonna do is just do an audit of like, what am I overwhelmed with? What's the biggest thing that's preventing my growth at the moment and then figuring out, okay, this is the number one thing I need help with. And if it's lead generation, I'm gonna get help with like, you know, find a mentor who solved that problem and just hire them. Right. So that's how I've always done it. It's just, what's the thing that I need the most help with right now. Uh, that's taking the most amount of my time that I'm uncertain with. And then I find the person who's already achieved that and I go hire them. Speaker 0 00:50:24 And what, so talk to me about the humility there, right? Because like a lot of young people and a lot of old people are like, I don't need any freaking help, man. I'll figure this out myself. Like I'm smart enough, but you are obviously like the fastest way to learn is to have people who have done it before, teach me how to do it. Right. Where where's that mean? Where's that mindset come from? Speaker 1 00:50:43 I just think I've never not gotten a high ROI on education from the right people. <laugh> mm-hmm <affirmative> so for me, it's like a very easy trade off. Right. It's like, if I can, you know, like if, if, if I wanted, if I can go to one person who's done like 20, 30 plus years in the, in the field, right. That I'm struggling with, like they can download, you know, the 80 20 of things for me, like very quickly. Right. I can understand that. Right. So it's like, that's the big thing. Like the one thing that, you know, that everyone's running out of is time <laugh> right. So it's I think any way we can compress that time, you'd be crazy not to, you know, because you're like, if you don't get ti help from a mentor, from a bottleneck that you're stuck with, like what, what else is your solution? Like, you're just gonna keep running into the same problem over and over again. So I just think whenever you can pay for advice from someone who's been there done that has a solution for what you're struggling with. Like you can't not make money. If you love it, Speaker 0 00:51:30 Love it. If you implement that's right. Love it. I, I have a rule. If we, if I, if our company spends any money on education, we have to make back. We have to be able to attribute revenue, the cost of the course, plus $1 or the cost of the mentoring plus $1. Then we've got a return, even if it's a dollar, uh, other, I mean, usually we get way more than that, but if we don't get a return, then it's entertainment, which is fine if that's what it is, but you know, maybe we want more return, then we do just entertainment. Love it. Yeah. Hey dude. Thank you so much for doing this for us. This has been amazing. I could literally just jazz with you for hours, man. And I look forward to doing more of that in person. Uh, super, super interesting and super helpful. Thank you so much for being a part of it. I really appreciate your time. Speaker 1 00:52:10 Yeah, no problem. It was great. I hope everyone found it valuable. And then if, uh, they have any questions, they can always reach out to us. Speaker 0 00:52:15 Yeah. Where, so where is the best place for people to reach out to you? Speaker 1 00:52:19 Uh, I mean maybe my email or you could go to scale with les.com or ping my email T [email protected] and we can give you any resources that you need. <laugh> so yeah, there you Speaker 0 00:52:27 Perfect. Love it. Unreal. Thank you so much, Sue. Uh, for being a part of it really appreciate you and, uh, see you in slack, man. Speaker 1 00:52:34 <laugh> for sure. Take care guys. Speaker 0 00:52:35 Unreal. Thanks man. All right, ladies and gentlemen, that is uh, oh man. I could seriously could talk with that guy for a long time. And I look forward to doing more of that in person in San Diego. If you wanna come to Mav con and hang out with myself and TSU and the other coaches and uh, all the other cool people that are gonna be there speaking, uh, then get in contact with our team [email protected] and, uh, get the details on what it's, uh, what's involved in coming there. We do have some tickets available for non Maverick's members. If you wanna come and see, uh, inside and come and join in the fund. Also tomorrow, Friday, it is Friday tomorrow here in Australia. Uh, wherever you are, what if it's Wednesday, then I'm talking about Thursday. If it's Tuesday, then you are possibly on another planet in another plane of existence. Speaker 0 00:53:18 And then I'm talking about Wednesday, but for most of us, it will be Thursday afternoon or Friday morning. We are running a free webinar to help you get back on track to achieving your goals. I have a hunch that a bunch of you set goals at the start of the year, and you are now so far away from achieving those goals that you can't find your way back. And you feel like you are lost in the woods. Well, just like Hansel and G griddle, we have some bread crumbs to get you back to the evil witches house. Speaker 0 00:53:48 We do have, uh, some bread crumbs to get you outta the woods and get you back on track to achieving your goals tomorrow. And by the way, if you are in Australia and you've just started a new financial year and you've set a bunch of goals and we are three weeks in and you might already be thinking, holy shit, I'm massively distracted. What am I doing at app Sumo buying lifetime deals for software that is not relevant to my goals at all. And why did I just hire that person who I never thought about hiring before? Because they had a slippery funnel that I went down. We wanna make sure that you stay on track and achieve your goals this year. So tomorrow we're running a webinar where I'm gonna walk you through why you are probably not why you are probably off track to achieving your goals. Speaker 0 00:54:26 And in fact why the goals that you have set are probably unattainable and impossible to achieve. We're gonna walk you through the anatomy of a perfect goal. If you don't have goals written out with the correct anatomy, there is just no way you can achieve them. It's impossible to achieve them. So we're gonna get that sorted out. And then I'm going to also give you my daily routine for making sure that you take the right actions every day to move towards achieving those goals. The one thing I know is that achieving goals is a result of taking the right action every single day, over a period of time, not sprinting for a weekend in November, just to make sure it gets done. Okay. The goal setting industry is a multi, multi multibillion dollar a year industry. And that is because most people suck at setting and achieving goals tomorrow on the webinar, it's totally free. Speaker 0 00:55:18 I'm gonna walk you through our framework for setting goals that you can actually achieve. Uh, join in, as I said is totally free come and hang out, and we are gonna get you realigned so that you can make sure that your goals are achievable and that you are on track to achieve them. Oh, and also, we're gonna talk about the dream team that you should build around you. I think there are three people that you should have around you that you communicate with on a regular basis to make sure that you achieve those goals. So come and hang out with us tomorrow. I think the link will be somewhere near this video register for the webinars totally free. Uh, and uh, you come and hang out and we'll teach you some cool stuff. All right, thanks so much for being a part of it. Again, if you are listening to this podcast, please like, and subscribe on whatever platform you are listening to send us a comment [email protected]. Speaker 0 00:56:03 Give us some feedback. And if you are not already in the digital Mavericks Facebook group, please join the group, come and join in the fun. Leave some comments on the video, tell us what you like, what you don't like. Uh, play the game that James Murgatroyd plays, which is counting the drinking vessels on Troy's desk. Every morning. There is currently one and it is empty because I drank my coffee. So it is time for me to go and refill it. I will see you all next week on the agency hour until then have a great week. I'm Troy Dean buy for now. Speaker 2 00:56:33 Thanks for listening to the agency hour podcast, subscribe at apple podcasts, Spotify pocket, audible, and wherever you like to listen, you can catch all of the agency hour episodes on our YouTube channel at youtube.com/agency Mavericks. Or you can get involved, check out our free digital Mavericks Facebook group, where we broadcast these episodes live for our community every week, along with a ton of free training. We'll see you there.

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